Well Crap.

The fee's just went up and the profits went down.
So Auctiva, do you think you will have a program to do Yahoo, Amazon or Overstock?

Unfortunately, we, and I speak for many of us, depend on Ebay for our tiny profits to make our lives better, feed our children, pay the rent or even have a GOOD time. I don't think that going from 5.25% fees to 8% fees is even justified for the service
and BS that most eBay'ers have to swallow to exist on eBay.

I've been doing the eBay thing since 1999 and had a great growth rate for 3 years and started seeing the profits depleting over the last two years.

I'm voicing my opinion and hope more eBud'ers will follow in my quest to SHOUT OUT the need for CHANGE and ADD MORE Auction sites to the Auctiva Web site.


This is just an opinion!

Michael

I certainly agree about the fees and have voiced my opinion on it. I also agree it would be great if ebud worked on other auction sites but I don't expect it will any time soon. I believe the poster will post to Yahoo or amazon. The fee increase seems to be having more of an impact this time, I think most sellers have experienced a decline in profits in the last year and consider the increase as a slap in the face by a greed driven company that is willing to do whatever they have to do to increase profits.

It seems that hundreds of people are switching to a new auction site called Wagglepop (designed by a couple of eBay powersellers). The site is scheduled to open in February. I really hope eBay will finally get some competition. They need it!

I will agree that eBay is getting greedy to the point of driving many small businesses away. My eBay fees are now averaging $2000 a month and the small profits we make does not even pay minium wage. I hope another auction site does open soon and maybe eBay will think again about their fee structure.

Voice your protest to the fee increase at

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?ebayfee&1601

I signed the petition. You think it will make a difference? Dream on.

eBay does not want the small seller anymore. They don't want the .99 cent item. It's unprofitable to sell the 99 cent item anyway, and they keep making it worse.

I love the official reasons for the fee increase, "for the dynamics of the marketplace". What the ^%$@ does that mean?

I don't know about the rest of you. I hate eBay. I wish I didn't depend upon them for the money i do make, and I do, but I hate them with a passion. They are a greedy, unreasonable company that tries to make themselves look as they are "for the community", but in reality it's all BS. They could care less about the small time seller. For every one that drops out, there is another to replace them.

This is a company that uses it's monoply position quite well. Not like Microsoft did by crushing and making dirty deals, but by nickel and dimeing the sellers to death.

I'm sorry to rant, but eBay just plain sucks.

I'm with you, Jeff. IF I didn't (try to) make my living selling on eBay, all the petitions and other sites might be an option. As it is, we've looked over the other sites, as we all do everytime eBay screws us AGAIN, and there's nobody home there. Most especially ... BIDDERS!

I'm not sure what the answer is. All *I* can do is try to offer them something they want. The timing on this couldn't have been worse, after a terrible Christmas and announcing the increase two weeks AFTER Christmas. Everybody's pretty down about low sales and they're getting us from every direction, so if your livelihood IS eBay, I guess you just have to keep on.

I've seen that people have tried to check out Wagglepop but all there are are message boards; no info on how to join unless something has changed. If it does I hope somebody will post here.

So......who thinks MEG is reading the petition? And giving a damn!

Jan - The One-time Theme Queen

Jan,

Wagglepop is a site that 2 eBay powersellers have been creating for a while now & is supposed to be up & ready within 2-3 weeks. There are literally thousands of people switching over when they finally do launch. Of course there will not be as many buyers at first but there weren't at eBay either. I am telling all of my customers in emails that since eBay has started this fee hike, I will be moving to Wagglepop. If I need anything my self to buy, I will go to Wagglepop first. It will take some time but I believe that this site will take off. You should read the discussion boards at that place! It is amazing how many people (buyers & sellers) are making the switch when Wagglepop launches in a couple of weeks. You can read all about it here:
http://www.freeauctionscripts.com/community/viewforum.php?f=29 on their message boards.

quote:

---

There are literally thousands of people switching over

---

Did you say thousands? Wow, that ought to mean nothing. Nothing at all. There is no way to beat ebay at it's own game. eBay will have to kill itself. Raising fees will not kill it either. Small sites like Overstock, and ePier, and the others won't kill it. It will have to be something that pisses off the BUYERS. The sellers may have made the place, but the buyers fuel it. You stay for the buyers, I stay for the buyers, Jan stays for the buyers.

I'm not picking on you by making sarcastic comments with your text, so please don't be offended. I just have to laugh every time I read about a petition, a "boycott", or a "new site that will take on eBay". The biggest jokes are the boycotts. Like a substantial portion of the sellers could ever pull that off to make a difference. You know why not? because the sellers want money too. There is no money to be made during a boycott or a strike. And there would be plenty of 'scabs' to fill in your loss.

Wagglepop hasn't even launched yet & over 2000 have registered already. I have all of my emails signed with the wagglepop link so all of my customers will hopefully try it. I will be buying there and I have referred at least 10 people. eBay has never angered people like they did this time. It will be almost impossible to make any money at eBay after the price increase. Now there are rumors that eBay is in the works of opening eBay up to China. If that happens, you will be competing with people that will take a $1 profit since it will feed their family for a week.

quote:

---

eBay has never angered people like they did this time.

---

Right. They anger people like this every time. New features, new fees, "I'M LEAVING!!!"

It means nothing to eBay.

quote:

---

Now there are rumors that eBay is in the works of opening eBay up to China. If that happens, you will be competing with people that will take a $1 profit since it will feed their family for a week.

---

I doubt it. Not unless those folks in China go to the same estate sale and garage sales I do. I don't sell things that 1000 other sellers do, so I don't worry about retail competition. I only get upset at eBay's arrogance. eBay sucks.

Add this to the debate:

eBay Sellers React Strongly Against Fee Increase
By Ina Steiner
AuctionBytes.com
January 18, 2005

eBay announced last week a change in its seller fee structure,
including increased fees on eBay Stores and certain features and
categories to take effect February 18
(http://auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y05/m01/i12/s00). In the days
following the announcement, sellers have reacted strongly against the
increase and have circulated an online petition and launched protest
auctions. Of most concern to sellers seemed to be the rate of the
increase.

Some sellers say they have closed their eBay Stores, although no exact
numbers are available. eBay reported it had 224,000 Stores worldwide
at the end of the third quarter 2004 (September 30, 2004); and of
those, 143,000 were hosted on the U.S. site. eBay also reported it had
acquired 20.3 million new Stores listings during the third quarter,
versus 4.1 million new Stores listings in the third quarter of 2003.

The announcement of increased fees has angered sellers of all sizes.
The Professional eBay Seller's Alliance (PESA) issued a statement on
Monday to express their dismay. The group says it is composed of 600
of eBay's largest sellers accounting for over $1 billion in annual
eBay sales. The statement read in part:

<<<<Overall, our members are reporting that they will pay up to 22% more
to eBay than before the increase. That's unprecedented, and will have
broad marketplace implications.

The history and spirit of the eBay marketplace is one of partnership
between buyers, sellers and eBay. Historically, eBay has benefited
only when buyers and sellers have benefited.

Sadly, this price increase flies in the face of that partnership,
siphoning more and more value away from sellers and away from buyers
(when prices or shipping charges increase to cover the fees), and
towards eBay itself. This is at time when large sellers that comprise
PESA's membership have only seen a degradation of the quality of the
marketplace, rather than any substantive investments in its
improvement. Sadly, this will inhibit, rather than nourish the growth
of the eBay marketplace. While this may increase eBay revenue for a
quarter or two, it certainly does not bode well for eBay's growth.

Anecdotally, we already see eBay's top sellers beginning to focus
their attention on other channels based on this and other problems. We
hope to have data on this soon.>>>>>

PESA's Spring Summit to be held in March will include sessions on
multi-channel selling, and PESA founder Joe Cortese said there has
been an increase in registrations over the past week.

As sellers try to discuss ways to cope with the impact of fees on
their business, including exploring alternative marketplaces, some
report they have been sent warnings or suspended from eBay's
discussion boards. Accusations of forum censorship by eBay are not
new.

One group of users formed a Yahoo Group, in one member's words, "so
that us disgruntled sellers may voice our opinion without being
censored or banned from ebay discussion boards. A lot of us have been
warned, had our posts deleted and have been suspended." The group
named itself GreedBay, and had fewer than 300 members as of Monday.
Discussions included posts on ways to cope, including having members
send postcards to eBay CEO Meg Whitman, and opinions about other
auction sites. In this group and on other online auction discussion
boards, it seems there is no consensus on which marketplace is a
viable alternative to eBay.

There's also no doubt from reading letters and online posts that
sellers are taking the fee hike personally.

Carol Green of Houston, Missouri wrote, "This situation is a financial
death knell for many cottage industry folks and when America is at
war, we didn't need Ebay potentially destabilizing the economy -
especially when the "little guy", many of whom the husbands are out
fighting in Iraq for us, are hit the worst."

Another seller who wished to remain anonymous wrote, "The fact that
eBay took a price increase is surely not an issue. What is an issue is
the RATE of increase which, to a business person who has spent several
years developing an auction based business predicated on specific cost
parameters, is unconscionable. It is the height of arrogance to
believe they can pull off such a stunt with no competitive
repercussion...which indeed will probably be the case. I for one am
ready for some serious competition...I'll be the first one to post."

Some sellers speculate eBay's next bombshell move may be to institute
surcharge for 7-day listings. It already charges sellers an extra fee
to list a 10-day auction.

An online petition protesting the fees has been circulating since last
week (http://www.petitiononline.com/ebayfee/petition.html). One line
of the petition letter reads, "We protest that ebay should reconsider
the fee increase entirely, but if not possible, please do think about
not increasing the fees as much (some fees have double...or even
tripled!)."

As of Monday evening, the petition showed 16,284 online "signatures."
[16,000 - big deal...]

eBay will release last quarter's earnings on Wednesday. Bloomberg
reported Monday that eBay's fourth quarter net income could be the
company's biggest increase in six quarters. If true, it could further
fan the flames already burning in some eBay sellers.

=====

If you look back a few weeks, you'll see when I commented on the loss of the 'free list day' that eBay would announce record earnings, and then increase fees.

Well, the order wasn't correct, and we don't know the exact numbers (but do expect them to be record) of their earnings, but I was correct. eBay is as predicatble as a spoiled child. They are a monopoly, and they suck.

I have three main thoughts/worries:

1. It doesn't matter if we, the SELLERS, switch sites. The BUYERS need to and they aren't all so sophisticated that they KNOW all the other sites. *I'm* not that sophisticated. Like I said in my other post, we ALWAYS check out the other sites when these things happen and we always crawl home with our tails between our legs.

2. Another thing is that BOYCOTTS are fine - if the BIDDERS are boycotting. I don't list every single day, anyway, so ME boycotting on 2/18 or even for three days, won't hurt eBay a bit! The bidders have to boycott so that there are no sales, thus no FVF's. Yeah, all the fees we pay to list go directly to eBay but so do FVF's. The only thing that would impact them is if there ARE no sales, and that wouldn't work for long. IT would have to be a boycott on such an enormous scale that I can't imagine enough bidders would do it.


3. I don't know about most other sellers, but the things I sell are not normally high end; practically never over $100 (recently not half that!) Raising my prices and adding handling fees wouldn't do me any good. It would just keep the people who already AREN'T buying NOT buying. And it would send them to another seller who can afford to sell what *I'm* selling for less.

I truly don't know the answer. I do know, and have known for a long time, that eBay really doesn't want the small-time, "I've been selling for six years" sellers. They want the 500-listing a day sellers with the wholesale, drop ship stuff. They aren't interested in the auction I went to on Saturday that was 175 miles round trip so I could get more stock TO sell on eBay. My Austrian china bowls and plates mean nothing to eBay; the pots and pans and fake distressed furniture do. If I could sell that way, I wouldn't.

They aren't going to take ANY of this back. They KNEW the uproar it would cause and they were prepared. I can't think of any way to hurt them.

Jan

There is no way to hurt them. They have to self destruct.

Assume a buyer boycott. It wouldn't work because there would be enough "bargain seeker" buyers to undermine the whole thing. There are seller 'scabs' and there are buyer 'scabs'.

No, eBay would not miss my $50-$100 a month in fees. I'm nothing in the big scheme. So I've been seller 8 years? I helped build them to where they are today? Move out of the way boy, we don't need you here no more. They want what Jan says, the 500 a day lister who sells an item weighing 3 ounces and charges $15 to ship it to recoup his fees. Talk about the ultimate price gouging.

16,000 signatures on a petition! That is a JOKE. That isn't even 1 percent of the seller population. Now maybe if the petition had 16 million signatures that would mean something, but 16,00 signatures, and 2000 sellers "going elsewhere" doesn't mean squat.

Well, Jeff.......

You and I generally agree on most everything and this is no exception.

They WOULDN'T miss us....... unfortunately, we would miss them. It's a shame; we DID build their business on OUR backs, and they have no problem breaking those backs.

j.

This is off the topic, but how do I get MY little logo thingy on my posts?

JeffS? Somebody?

Jan

Click the tab marked GO up top there at the start of the messages. Then select MY SPACE, folowed by PROFILE. When your profile appears, click on VIEW/EDIT COMPLETE PROFILE. Scroll down until you see AVATAR/PICTURE URL and click EDIT.

Maybe I should make an avatar that says "eBay Sucks"

Thanks, JeffS

Hey - whatever you want to "say" about eBay is fine with me!

j.

Well, I don't know where the heck I have been but I hadn't even heard of the increase! My disgust is only growing...

I just about had a coronary when eBay cancelled 50 of my listings for "trying to circumvent fees." How am I supposed to sell something at a decent price and get any money. You are all right, they don't care about the small business who is trying to get by. This is just the ultimate!

You try to increase your s/h fees to buffer some of the fees and the buyers have a fit. Is there any way around this? I have tried listing on other sites as well and nothing, zip, nada. I have also had a website created, but if you have to keep it hush, hush because it is against eBay "policy" than what the heck is the point?

What to do????

I signed the petition and switched to OnlineAuction.com. I would love to see Auctiva support this site, but if not I will leave Auctiva too after 5 years! You are right about ebay putting the little guys out of business. They don't want us and they are sewing the seeds of their own eventual destruction by turning ebay into just another retail shopping store.

I think people who want the unique and unusual and a real auction will start looking elsewhere and we can help by promoting our venue choice through internet advertising, email tags, etc.

Come see my new auctions on OnlineAuction.com - futurepb. I just listed my first auction and hope that less competition will increase sales. Wish me luck!

After finally reaching a (1000) feedback score at eBay with no negatives, I am out of there. Enough is enough and this site has too big a cash grab. I have come up with a better idea, that works for me. I have been listing my stuff on a free site called www.theauctionman.net. It is really fast and easy to list using there, with their template based bulk lister. You can even copy your whole ebay store over, fast and easy with no retyping or copy and pasting. I have seen people move 1,000 listings in an hour. This site is growing fast because the people that run it know how to do things right. Sure it does not have the eBay exposure just yet, but so far I have sold over 40 lots there. Check it out. I am sure you will like it.