I've asked this in another thread and was roundly attacked by many forum members here. It seems there was "lesbian pornography" which offended some sensibilities (Michelle-our elite member), so instead of hitting back on her browser, she chose to report them to Auctiva, then bask in the pats on the back from other members here on how great she was for shutting down someone elses business. I pointed out the slippery slope we're on if we all decide to start snitching on eachother in the community, on what WE deem offensive. Was the person in violation of the pornography clause on the prohibited items list? Definitely. Did it bother me personally? Not in the least. I've made my point clear. Mind your OWN business, and stay out of everyone elses. If Auctiva chooses to police thier site, let them, it's theirs not ours. I have NO problem with them having a list of clear cut rules, and PROHIBITED items.
Which brings me to my first question for the community. One of the people who attacked me to defend Michelle, Lisa, admitted here on the forum, that, yes, she is NOT an authorized seller of the goods she sells here. She sells Coach Purses, not counterfeit or replica Coach purses, perfectly brand new Coach purses (I assume). Her point, as an ex-lawyer, is that she has the right to sell whatever she wants, and the items she sells are legal. Wel, anyone that is aware of Coach handbags and their selling practices knows full well that she is not telling the truth. Coach is ADAMANT about NOT letting just ANYONE sell their products. This directly from their website:
"Who is authorized to sell Coach product?
Coach offers its merchandise for sale through the following methods of distribution: (1) Coach stores, (2) Coach factory stores, (3) Coach catalogs, (4) authorized department stores, (5) AUTHORIZED specialty stores and catalogs, (6) limited duty free locations, and (7) coach.com. Coach does NOT have individual distributors and is not available through house parties.
Can I sell Coach product in my store?
At this time we are not currently entering into new wholesale/vendor relationships within North America or Japan."
Now, I know for a fact that they routinely send cease & desist orders to people selling their products who are not authorized to do so. And if Lisa continues with her store idea, she will definitely be getting one of those letters.
Now, within Auctiva's Prohibited items list, it clearly states:
"Auctiva Commerce does not permit the sale of goods you do not have the right to sell, goods produced in violation of a third party's rights, goods in violation of export or labeling restrictions."
Now to me, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Lisa is in clear violation of not only Coach's restrictions, but also Auctiva's. When I pointed this out, once again, I was attacked. You see, Lisa was all for removing the offending pornographer, but now that she's brought out to also be in violation, her response to me was "get a life!"...and that I should be "removed from the gene pool"? ...how touching.
And for those, who think I'm somehow snithching on Lisa by even posting this, she outed herself publicly on this forum, and clearly admitted that she was NOT authorized by Coach to sell what she sells.
Well, lets just say, my previous posts pointing out the double standard were either edited or deleted by Auctiva, just for pointing this out.
So, how do you all feel? Is this a double-standard? Should we all become tattle-tales like 5 year olds? And when the person defending the tattler is also guilty, do we look the other way? Does the fact that Lisa is an elite forum member, and an ex-lawyer, validate her illegal activity? And how does Michelle, the initial snitch, feel about her friend Lisa, who is now known to also be a violator? Or should we all just MIND OUR OWN BUSINESS???
Keep the personal swipes out of posts. I removed your other posts because they were bickering, and secondly off topic for that thread. And it wasnt just yours.
quote:
Mind your OWN business
We haven't been getting anyone turning people in as far as I know so far. However the search page is the front face for everyones stores. And a porno item front and center on that page is everyones business. I'd have reported it and turned them in myself and closed it down had I been the one to see it.
Totally undertandable, as I've said, it's your site. And if you look back, I didn't swipe at anyone who hadn't already attacked me first.
But you didn't answer what your opinion is of Lisa, who is clearly in violation of your prohibited items list, and if she should be removed. Or does her status here as an elite forum member clear her? I'd also love to hear from other community members on their opinion, especially the ones who came to the defense of Michelle. And as I've said, Michelle's opinion as well. Is one violation o.k. but another's not, because some of you deem it "offensive"?
My view and this is my personal opinion and i do not expect anyone to agree or disagree is that if Auctiva have issued a prohibeted list that all store owners are expected to abide by and fully understand the details then i would have thought that you would then abide by those rules. Is Auctiva taking responsibility for the policing of its rules?I don't know the answer to that,maybe they could let us know. I also find that what offends a person may not offend someone else,unless it is illegal,what ever they may encompass. I feel that you always have to take into consideration both sides of the scenario,unless of course it is against published rules. I havn't seen the previous posts so this is just my observation of this particular post. We may need to guidance here Jeff so that we can all get on with selling on this great oportunity that is happening.Take care all Graham http://giftsandcollectables.eu
Posted May 10, 2009 11:52 AM Hide Post Totally undertandable, as I've said, it's your site. And if you look back, I didn't swipe at anyone who hadn't already attacked me first.
But you didn't answer what your opinion is of Lisa, who is clearly in violation of your prohibited items list, and if she should be removed. Or does her status here as an elite forum member clear her? I'd also love to hear from other community members on their opinion, especially the ones who came to the defense of Michelle. And as I've said, Michelle's opinion as well. Is one violation o.k. but another's not, because some of you deem it "offensive"?
Without actually purchasing one of her bags, how would you be able to tell if she is selling knockoff, fake, or altered bags? Sorry but I've been bored today (can't log in to my admin) so I searched and searched and can not find any laws against reselling purchased or donated new or used bags. Coach does not like it and if they think you are reselling will ban you from further purchasing but you are not breaking any laws that I could find. I did see they sued a few large stores selling close copies.
quote:
Should we police stores with PROHIBITED items?
My opinion? No, leave the stores to Auctiva. But on the "Search" or the "Front door" to all our stores? I would not send any of my regular customers, friends, or family there if they will run into that sort of thing with out any warning.
I don't work for Auctiva in anyway. It is not my job to police the shop. I was offended by what I saw but more concerned by the rules, fairness, and our ability to sell in an environment that doesn't turn sellers away as I stated in previous posts.
These threads that you are posting in are primarily supposed to be for items with stores that people need help with.
This type of conversation is best taken to the lounge as Jeff requested so that those of us who do help others on the forums can do so.
You have heard my opinion and I don't intend to get in any further discussion with you about it.
I will not become the AC police department nor do I want to be. Jeff has told us in a thread how violations should be handled and if people feel the need to do so they can put in support tickets and have AC look into it.
It is clear that you wish to stir the pot instead of letting the matter drop as you agreed to do yesterday as you are still asking for my opinion and others opinions about the subject.
I have said all I intend to say on the matter and I don't feel the need to discuss it further.
I would appreciate it if everyone would not post any further in this thread. If you want to discuss it till the cows come home, please open a thread in the lounge.
Michelle
Due to health issues I am no longer doing Auctiva Commerce webdesign or training.
Posts: 8137 | Location: The Beautiful Mountains in Colorado | Registered: June 30, 2006
Yes Rocfeathers, I'm just assuming that what she is selling is not counterfeit, just by her own admission. But regardless, even if they are brand new, she isn't allowed to sell them unless she's an authorized seller, by Coach themselves. Anyone who holds the trademark has the ability to control that trademark, and they can decide how "new" items are sold or marketed, and who exactly does that. To sell one new bag you purchased won't set off their radar, but if you have a handbag store, with dozens of supposed "new" handbags, all sold far below retail, thats when they would come after you, and the place that allows you to do so (either ebay, or in this case Auctiva). Ebay's defense in the past was to plead ignorance, and then remove the offender from their site. It worked for them here in the states, not so well in European courts. Auctiva could have also pleaded ignorance, had Lisa not admitted publicly that she is an unauthorized seller of Coach's products, and that she is clearly in violation of Auctiva's prohibited item list. At this point, Auctiva is opening themselves up to liability if they allow it to continue. Thats why Jeff's opinion was requested here.
As to Michelle... I understand your offense regarding the pornography, and I agree that it has no place here. It's the way you went about it and your glee you seemed to have from removing this member of our community. I've made my point clear regarding this, as have you. As for where we should be having this discussion, as you say, you don't work for Auctiva, so why would you direct people NOT to post any further on this thread? And why request it to be moved? Jeff clearly told me to either start a new thread or move it to the lounge, I chose to start a new thread. And as you can see from Jeff's previous posts, he obviously does not have a problem with it here, or he would have said so, not posted comments. Only you have a problem with it, and for good reason that we all can see. I agreed to let the issue drop, yes, but that was before I was attacked after this WAS dropped, by your defender Lisa, who we now see is also clearly in violation of the same user agreements she was defending. Don't you find that a bit strange? Your defender is also a violator? And instead of responding how you feel she should be dealt with, (we all know how you dealt with the last guy), you simply told everyone to just not post on this thread anymore. Just sweep it under the rug. Like you said earlier, you're not an Auctiva employee. Please refrain from directing and deterring people where they should post. But just answer the basic question. Should ALL violators be removed, or just the ones YOU find offensive?
Hi All, I'm new here so I was not around for the controversy you mentioned. But I'm of the opinion it is auctivas job to police their own site, maybe right after they make it work... There is not an item made that does not offend someone. Just my liberal bias opinion mind you. Have a great day! Sheri
I'm sorry, I did not mean to imply that anyone here was selling fake items! Only that all I could find on the subject, including the results of this lawsuit filed by LVMH. ("Earlier today, the Tribunal de Commerce in Paris, France ordered eBay to pay 38.6 million euros ($61 million) in damages to the French luxury goods company Louis Vuitton (LVMH), regarding the sale of counterfeits online.") only dealt with counterfeits not the resale of genuine products. The only information I could find on resale was that regardless of what Coach would like, if you own it you can resale it. Now I'm done with this subject! I do not even own a purse, do not plan on buying one, and have Hated the things since high school. I also think it is a monumental waste of time to bicker between ourselves. Good day! Sheila
Hey Sheila, Yes the LVMH is one of the ones I was referring to, but if you read up on it a bit, the issue was fakes but also their ability to control how their new perfume line is sold and marketed, since they're the trademark holder.
I have a feeling this is all a moot point anyway, as it seems that merely hours after I've outed Lisa, she plans on leaving Auctiva and moving her business elsewhere. This is what Lisa's posted elsewhere on her future here:
"Goodbye eBay, Goodbye Auctiva!...Well it's official - I'm changing e-commerce hosts - from Auctiva Commerce to Buyitsellit. It's a no brainer really! "
Wow. Maybe the new site she is promoting doesn't have a prohibited items list. Very interesting.This message has been edited. Last edited by: converse1,
I think if an Auctiva website is offensive to a child under 18yrs old, report them to auctiva. if it is an Auctiva website selling goods they don't have the right to sell and it bugs you, contact the manufacturer if it bothers you that much and let them deal with it. problem solved!!!!
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