Hi - I recently dealt with an unreasonable person overseas who claimed they never got their package and although I gave them the option to purchase insurance to protect against loss, they did not, so now I am out a big chunk of money. Well you live and learn and move on.
However, to prevent this in the future, I'd like to know if I can purchase the insurance myself to cover against loss? And the BIG question that is most important - do they have to participate in the process? Would the fact they filed a Non-Receipt of item complaint with PayPal be enough? With no direct communication with me, no answers to any of my emails to try to help them, and misleading negative feedback after all this, even if I had purchased the insurance myself, this person would not have helped me with the claim process and I'd be out the insurance money, too! I went to the U-PIC website to see if I could find answers to this, but the USPS Claim Form page didn't work. Thank you to anyone who can answer. It is most appreciated.
Hi - Your post brought up a lot of my own thoughts on this, so here I go: A good place to research about shipping/insurance/what to do, etc. are the ebay boards. There are dozens of posters discussing these very same issues each and every day. After much reading and thought, I have settled on making insurance mandatory on ALL sales, period, no "option". However, rather than make it "required", I include it in my shipping/handling because buyers don't like to be "required" to do something, also that way it becomes more like a service to the customer. I also state in my listing that the buyer must participate in the insurance process as required (there's that word again,did I just contradict myself?)(and hope that he is willing to cooperate).
I always include delivery confirmation, also as a "service". State this info in your listing, positively presented. Remember, PayPal and Ebay consider it to be the seller's responsibilty to get the item to the buyer, and as described, ie in one piece. If it is lost or damaged it is the seller's responsibility to make good on this, regardless of whether the buyer purchased insurance or not.
So insurance and Delivery Confirmation really protects the SELLER, because PayPal/Ebay will always tend to favor the buyer in cases of dispute, with the seller having to refund much of the time. Many sellers try to hide behind statements of non-responsibilty if insurance is not purchased by the buyer. Good in theory, but PayPal and Ebay do not see it that way, and I have to agree. The buyer should not be out his purchase money, and his shipping charges, and the goods if they are lost or damaged. How would you feel? A responsible seller should stand behind his transaction and not leave his trading partner hanging out to dry. Moral: The buyer is already covered(by paypal and ebay and you) so cover yourself as well, always buy insurance/confirmation, but make the buyer pay for it.
I believe that in the long run, if you take as much of the buyer's risk as possible out of the transaction, and make that known to your potential bidders, that you will get more business, even if you have to eat it on occasion. I realize that a lot depends on what you are selling, but in general this is probably a valid rule for many of us sellers. Well I'm sure this is a LOT more than you wanted to hear and I know I didn't address all of your questions, but I think this is a major issue we all have to figure out, and so I may have gotten a bit carried away...my apologies. Maybe another member can add their own views, and answer your questions more directly. Good luck.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: ninth_wave,
Hi - Thank you, Ninth. I appreciate you taking the time to answer me and give me your ideas. I plan to incorporate many of your suggestions into my next listings. I list most of my items with low opening bids and never know where they are going to end up so it's going to make it hard to 'include insurance in the S&H price'. I already include delivery confirmation with my US sales and now require insurance for breakables, but sending packages (under 1lb. - 2lbs.) overseas with delivery confirmation is much more difficult to do economically and now with the new postal rate changes and methods of shipping available, even more difficult! I would be happy to pay for the insurance out of my own pocket for amounts I'm not willing to lose, if I could get the money back without the buyers cooperation in situations where they don't care.
I am both a buyer and a seller on eBay and I realize I think differently than most people but once a package leaves the sellers hands, they really have no control if it gets there or not. So as a buyer I always buy insurance if I'm not willing to risk the loss because I understand it's not the seller's fault if they can prove they mailed it. I feel they did their job and acted responsibly. Damage is different. As a seller, if an item is damaged and they prove it to me, I immediately refund if I didn't require insurance. That could be the seller's fault for not packaging carefully.
Another reason I wanted to know if the buyer had to participate in the claim process or not was because I once refunded money to a woman who claimed an item I sent her was broken. There was no way it broke in transit the way I packaged it and she admitted the box was not damaged, but I gave back the money anyway. When I mentioned she could have purchased insurance to protect against the damage so neither of us lost money she flat out told me "I wouldn't have bought it anyway" and said it was too much hassle. So if you are dealing with a buyer who doesn't care if the seller loses money, what can you do?
Thanks again for answering and if anyone else can answer the original question about the buyer's requirements for collecting the claim I'd appreciate it. Have a good day!
then went to the USPS site for their info and forms.
Conclusion: It seems both the seller AND THE BUYER have a definite roll to play in the claims process, both in loss claims, and damage claims. If the buyer is not willing to cooperate in this and just simply files a paypal or ebay claim against you, then you may wind up refunding w/o being reimbursed. Without buyer cooperation the insurance doesn't do much good. So the buyer definitely has the edge here. Hey, cost of doing business I guess, the system is FAR from perfection.
The U-PIC, UPS, Fed-Ex, and International situations I really haven't looked into so can't speak to that.
Auctiva uses U-PIC as their insurance carrier. While the Auctiva customer service reps are great sources of help, I've also found U-PIC reps to be extremely helpful in answering questions. Don't be afraid to call them up and ask questions - their toll free number is right on their home page (www.u-pic.com).
That being said, yes, your buyer will have to participate in order to fulfill a claim. They will have to sign a written statement and mail/fax/email it to you. Depending on the nature of the claim, the buyer may also be required to submit photos of damaged packaging or product.
While you may get the occasional ornery buyer that refuses to participate, I have heard that PayPal will take this fact into consideration when deciding on a claim. I can't speak from personal experience though, as I've never had that happen yet (knock on wood).
ALWAYS insure anything that you cannot afford to replace if lost or damaged in shipping. It will be your arse on the line if the buyer decides to file with PayPal. Personally, my policy is Delivery Confirmation on all domestic shipments, insurance if it's pricey (over $100) or if the buyer seems... "questionable".
The great thing about U-PIC is that they will insure Air Letter/Parcel or Global Priority international shipments, whereas USPS won't. I insure ALL international shipments. No exceptions. I just work it into my shipping cost.
Thank you Ninth and Biscuit! I understand more clearly now. I will call U-PIC if I need more information. I was hoping when the post office announced the new postal changes that they would offer some sort of delivery confirmation/tracking for a reasonable price on their new First Class International mail like they do domestically, but it didn't happen. How hard is it to scan a number?
Yeah, it would be nice to have international DC, but remember that a buyer would still win a PayPal dispute, even if they did have DC, but not a confirmed address (which most countries don't have).
That's a good point, Biscuit. Many of the countries I sell to do not have confirmed addresses. That's why I was hoping the insurance would help me for those sales that were sent to unconfirmed. Although I have to tell you, I've sold to many unconfirmed addresses both overseas and here in the US and have had no trouble with any of them so far. Only confirmed address people have filed and been refunded through 'lost' mail disputes. Have you ever used BidPay? I wondered if they were more easy for sellers to deal with.
I have been considering BidPay recently, but have not tried it yet. I'm thinking of experimenting a bit with it, though.
To be honest, I've only ever had one bad experience with an international customer when I shipped a $130 electronic organizer, and he claimed non-receipt. I don't normally sell electronics, though, so I chalk that one up to selling in a high-risk category, and not knowing much (at the time) about how to protect myself from such things.
I sell quite a bit of stuff internationally, so it's well worth the risk (for me). On the other hand, I sell in pretty low risk categories...
OK, I have a burning question on the whole insurance issue. If anyone is an expert or has been through this, the answer should be clear, and that's what I'm hoping for. I sell on eBay. The buyer uses Auctiva checkout and buys insurance through Auctiva.
Who files the claim, and who gets the check? Does the seller really have to participate? If the buyer is buying the insurance, don't they have to file the claim? It looks like they can get all the necessary info from the checkout page and the receipts they already have access to.
No clear answers to this on any of the postings I've read or U-Pic's web site. I have a buyer who needs a claim check and I want to be sure I know what the heck I'm telling him before I screw something up. I'm not sure if I should initiate the claim process and simply get the affidavit from him, or if he should complete both forms and submit the claim himself. As for the policy and Client ID, I don't know what the buyer has access to. All we get as sellers is a page that shows insurance was purchased and how much it was.
It would be nice to see the buyer's side of things. In any case, I already know the policy and Client ID from previous posts. But I'd like my questions above answered. Just wish claims were a bit easier, faster, and less confusing.
As I mentioned above, the only onus on the buyer typically is to provide the affidavit, and also pics of the damaged item, if applicable. Other than that you must handle the rest. You are the one that must file the claim, and you will be the one receiving the check.
Don't think of insurance as being bought by the buyer, because really, it is protecting you in the end. When it all comes down to it, it is the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer safely.
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