You can read "How to Escape a Hostage Situation" here. Reply to this message to discuss it.
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The absolute best way to avoid eBay's enabling of Feedback terrorism and hostage situations, is the same way as you handle getting hit by a ton of bricks falling off a skyscraper: Don't be there when it hits.
For eBay, it's quite an easy task to avoid. Simply join the eBay boycott.
Why?
Well, in case getting an undeserved negative is not sufficient reasons, there are several others:
1. I myself was notified regarding an eBay terrorist. This seller was allowed to buy off eBay for THIRTEEN long months, claiming she had not received items; yet turned around and sold these items a few weeks after she "didn't receive them"; but, was refunded by PayPal.
Now mind you, this is not one or two items. This went on for THIRTEEN months. From the time eBay changed the feedback policy, until June 2009. She had left just under 30% negative for sellers during that 13 month period.
Understand, eBay ALLOWED this to continue for THIRTEEN months. Sellers complained and complained. They even started up a website about her. Yet, eBay did NOTHING.
2. If that isn't enough to scare the eBay out of you, maybe this will: eBay has been running off insignificant sellers for over two years now. By insignificant, I mean anyone who pays eBay fees, but lists less than $500,000 in any given month. That is their new target seller. God alone knows why, because they pay no listing fees, can negotiate FVFs and even negotiate eBay policy. Ie, they don't pay nearly as much as a normal seller would. But, with these changes, comes higher FVFs to the rest of us; new ways to force us to pay higher fees. Promises of lower fees, but, in the end, they are higher. Policies have changed; and none for our better; and by the looks of things on the financial side of things, not for eBay either--yet, they continue to think pissing off a huge segment of the community is the right way to go.
3. And, they are not finished. They're adding even MORE changes that will screw over the insignificant sellers who have decided to stay. Coming soon to a screw you near you, any insignificant seller who receives a complaint, EVEN IF it is ruled in your favor, it will STILL count against you!
Say what? Some buyer who for no other reason than "Because eBay lets me" can complain, and even if eBay says, "You are in the right", they will count it against you?
I'm sorry, I just do not get it.
But, that is why I cannot trust eBay.
Sure, eBay says they will monitor situations. But, do they?
Btw, would you like to know why eBay NARU'd that seller, after THIRTEEN long months? Because of tons of complaints? Not a chance in hell. Several sellers had just complained that week, and eBay had said, "No". Instead, once it came to my attention, I emailed Lorrie and I let her know precisely what this lady was doing and I had to threaten eBay my own self. I let her know that I was ready to present the evidence I had to several media outlets; including The New York Times, Fox News, and several others. Interestingly enough, I received a call within three days stating that member was NARU'd. Of course, members of the boycott emailed me, so I knew that already.
Oh, and btw, would you all like to know how many negatives that member left the 4 years prior to the FB policy change? Zero! But, in 13 months since, she had left 56, or 28% negative her final 13 months!
In eBay we trust?
HELL NO!
Tim
http://forums.delphiforums.com/boycottebay/start
For eBay, it's quite an easy task to avoid. Simply join the eBay boycott.
Why?
Well, in case getting an undeserved negative is not sufficient reasons, there are several others:
1. I myself was notified regarding an eBay terrorist. This seller was allowed to buy off eBay for THIRTEEN long months, claiming she had not received items; yet turned around and sold these items a few weeks after she "didn't receive them"; but, was refunded by PayPal.
Now mind you, this is not one or two items. This went on for THIRTEEN months. From the time eBay changed the feedback policy, until June 2009. She had left just under 30% negative for sellers during that 13 month period.
Understand, eBay ALLOWED this to continue for THIRTEEN months. Sellers complained and complained. They even started up a website about her. Yet, eBay did NOTHING.
2. If that isn't enough to scare the eBay out of you, maybe this will: eBay has been running off insignificant sellers for over two years now. By insignificant, I mean anyone who pays eBay fees, but lists less than $500,000 in any given month. That is their new target seller. God alone knows why, because they pay no listing fees, can negotiate FVFs and even negotiate eBay policy. Ie, they don't pay nearly as much as a normal seller would. But, with these changes, comes higher FVFs to the rest of us; new ways to force us to pay higher fees. Promises of lower fees, but, in the end, they are higher. Policies have changed; and none for our better; and by the looks of things on the financial side of things, not for eBay either--yet, they continue to think pissing off a huge segment of the community is the right way to go.
3. And, they are not finished. They're adding even MORE changes that will screw over the insignificant sellers who have decided to stay. Coming soon to a screw you near you, any insignificant seller who receives a complaint, EVEN IF it is ruled in your favor, it will STILL count against you!
Say what? Some buyer who for no other reason than "Because eBay lets me" can complain, and even if eBay says, "You are in the right", they will count it against you?
I'm sorry, I just do not get it.
But, that is why I cannot trust eBay.
Sure, eBay says they will monitor situations. But, do they?
Btw, would you like to know why eBay NARU'd that seller, after THIRTEEN long months? Because of tons of complaints? Not a chance in hell. Several sellers had just complained that week, and eBay had said, "No". Instead, once it came to my attention, I emailed Lorrie and I let her know precisely what this lady was doing and I had to threaten eBay my own self. I let her know that I was ready to present the evidence I had to several media outlets; including The New York Times, Fox News, and several others. Interestingly enough, I received a call within three days stating that member was NARU'd. Of course, members of the boycott emailed me, so I knew that already.
Oh, and btw, would you all like to know how many negatives that member left the 4 years prior to the FB policy change? Zero! But, in 13 months since, she had left 56, or 28% negative her final 13 months!
In eBay we trust?
HELL NO!
Tim
http://forums.delphiforums.com/boycottebay/start
"The buyer has done their job. They've paid; they deserve the feedback"
Payment is required FB is voluntary
FB left for buyers is TOTALLY useless.
Unless the buyer leaves FB 1st they will never get FB from me.
Buyer does NOT under any circumstance earn pos FB 1st just for paying only.
The buyer scams burns ya but thats OK you done left POS FB for them just for paying, how do ya feel pos about that.
I swear some sellers still have that buyer is always right mindset.
That business mindset went away long time ago, Must be nice to feel pos about a buyer who scams ya.
Lets GET REAL here buyers do not earn pos FB just for doing 1 thing that is required of them.
I have never let a buyer scam me not yet anyways. I also have 100% FB too but I will stick to principle & let chips fall where they may as all buyers are NOT good buyers like ebay & other cheerleaders think they are. Do you even realize just how many bad stupid idiotic moron buyers are on ebay anymore ? Some days I get so many of those MAJOR PITA stupid were potential buyers asking stupid moronic ? I have to get off the computer after I add them to my BBL. I got some of the real "heres your sign awards" saved. Some buyers cannot even be bothered to read or look at multiple photos in a listing or any other info posted in the listing.
Payment is required FB is voluntary
FB left for buyers is TOTALLY useless.
Unless the buyer leaves FB 1st they will never get FB from me.
Buyer does NOT under any circumstance earn pos FB 1st just for paying only.
The buyer scams burns ya but thats OK you done left POS FB for them just for paying, how do ya feel pos about that.
I swear some sellers still have that buyer is always right mindset.
That business mindset went away long time ago, Must be nice to feel pos about a buyer who scams ya.
Lets GET REAL here buyers do not earn pos FB just for doing 1 thing that is required of them.
I have never let a buyer scam me not yet anyways. I also have 100% FB too but I will stick to principle & let chips fall where they may as all buyers are NOT good buyers like ebay & other cheerleaders think they are. Do you even realize just how many bad stupid idiotic moron buyers are on ebay anymore ? Some days I get so many of those MAJOR PITA stupid were potential buyers asking stupid moronic ? I have to get off the computer after I add them to my BBL. I got some of the real "heres your sign awards" saved. Some buyers cannot even be bothered to read or look at multiple photos in a listing or any other info posted in the listing.
I'm not so worried about negative feedback - I'm concerned with "performance stars" - I've had all my buyers leave glowing feedback, yet have received 2 "stars" in the 2 level, putting me at risk for being removed from selling... how is that possible? No one has contacted me, no one has complained in feedback, how can they be allowed to leave low "stars" if everything is "fabulous?" Also, Ebay won't tell sellers who left low stars so you can't figure out what might have been wrong so you can correct issues in the future... Hostage feedback is the least of my problems!
But Paypal will reverse payment so you're screwed. I sold a lap steel guitar to a guy in France who said it was a POS and totally unplayable. Two weeks later he was using it with his band on a YouTube clip! In the meantime Paypal had given him back my money.
Danna,
You have written a wonderful article here. This should be required reading for every Ebay seller.
I am a seller, but mostly a buyer. I remember well the terrorizing by sellers in feedback. Sad as it may be, ther ARE dishonest sellers out there. When I was burned and left negative feedback, the seller always left scathing feedback on me. It just seems that they were always part of that 2% of dishonest sellers, and those are the ones who cannot stand to have anything said critisizing them. But how could you warn others without leaving honest feedback?
So, I am glad for the new feedback policy. As far as the responder who said buyer feedback is useless, don't listen to them. Buyer feedback is important and as a buyer I used to resent it when a seller would wait to leave feedback until I did. You are right. When a buyer pays, they have done their job. They deserve feedback. If a seller is honest and doing their best, they have no reason to fear.
If I have a problem with a purchase I always contact the seller first, before leaving feedback. I will never leave negative feedback for a seller who deals with me honestly and sincerely. 98% of sellers do. They are usually anxious to resolve any issue the buyer has. 98% of buyers are honest too, and just want what the auction description says they are getting. There is, I admit, an occasional seller that I am compelled to leave negative feedback on still. There are just always some who are unreasonable and not willing to deal fairly with you. Usually they are abusive and dishonest (as I said before) and you can usually tell with a little research on them, because other buyers will have been unsatisfied as well and left negatives on them.
All in all it is a more fair system now on Ebay.
Again Danna, I would like to thank you for a detailed and insightful article.
Steven
You have written a wonderful article here. This should be required reading for every Ebay seller.
I am a seller, but mostly a buyer. I remember well the terrorizing by sellers in feedback. Sad as it may be, ther ARE dishonest sellers out there. When I was burned and left negative feedback, the seller always left scathing feedback on me. It just seems that they were always part of that 2% of dishonest sellers, and those are the ones who cannot stand to have anything said critisizing them. But how could you warn others without leaving honest feedback?
So, I am glad for the new feedback policy. As far as the responder who said buyer feedback is useless, don't listen to them. Buyer feedback is important and as a buyer I used to resent it when a seller would wait to leave feedback until I did. You are right. When a buyer pays, they have done their job. They deserve feedback. If a seller is honest and doing their best, they have no reason to fear.
If I have a problem with a purchase I always contact the seller first, before leaving feedback. I will never leave negative feedback for a seller who deals with me honestly and sincerely. 98% of sellers do. They are usually anxious to resolve any issue the buyer has. 98% of buyers are honest too, and just want what the auction description says they are getting. There is, I admit, an occasional seller that I am compelled to leave negative feedback on still. There are just always some who are unreasonable and not willing to deal fairly with you. Usually they are abusive and dishonest (as I said before) and you can usually tell with a little research on them, because other buyers will have been unsatisfied as well and left negatives on them.
All in all it is a more fair system now on Ebay.
Again Danna, I would like to thank you for a detailed and insightful article.
Steven
I agree that most people are honerable, however all it takes is that 1 or 2. I had a top rated seller buy an item dirt cheap, leave me positive feedback, but then left me a 2 in the DSR's for shipping costs. She never contacted me, it turns out from looking at her listings that someone had given her a low dsr in shipping costs, so she figured she would screw another seller. I never overcharge on shipping and have never had a low mark is the dsr's.
I hear the boycotters and the frustration. It is sort of like the post office though, what is the viable alternate?
As for the feedback situation, I think eBay was trying to placate the big boys and as is usually the case it is done at the expense of the masses.
The thing that REALLY gets to me is the star system for delivery time. I get the stuff out within the 3 days promised. I use Canada Post. The item may or may not be delivered expeditiously but I do NOT control that yet, I get measured - rated on the Post Office's performance!
I think that it is time for eBay to review that portion of the feedback system if they are to stick with the "honesty in business" motto.
CW
As for the feedback situation, I think eBay was trying to placate the big boys and as is usually the case it is done at the expense of the masses.
The thing that REALLY gets to me is the star system for delivery time. I get the stuff out within the 3 days promised. I use Canada Post. The item may or may not be delivered expeditiously but I do NOT control that yet, I get measured - rated on the Post Office's performance!
I think that it is time for eBay to review that portion of the feedback system if they are to stick with the "honesty in business" motto.
CW
ISSUES WITH FEEDBACK
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Nobody in particular at ebay [i think]
This issue has been rejected. The font size used on line 17 is not to the specified requirements and thus the issues are wholly rejected and cannot be proccessed. This error also precludes from the issues being resubmitted in any other format, acceptable or otherwise, as stated in paragraph 3 of the terms and conditions that could have been signed by you.
In order to help you prepare and present issues that are of an acceptable format please follow the guidlines below:-
Always do everything right and never make a mistake as we recommend in our policy advice staement.
I hope that you have found this message helpful and please fill in a questionnaire to let us know how helpful we have been. In order to save on administartion fees please send your questionnaire results straight to your 'trash' file.
Yours sincerely,
Nobody in particular at ebay [i think]
quote:When a buyer pays, they have done their job. They deserve feedback. If a seller is honest and doing their best, they have no reason to fear.
Are you a ebay cheerleader? You do not sell much do you ? or are you just naive about how it really is. A buyer could burn ya just because of the color of pascking peanuts or even just the fact that you even used packing peanuts. Or they could be a NON reading unreasonable PITA. FB is suspose to be about the whole transaction NOT just the fact thaqt they did what was REQUIRED of them
You know, marychristina, that this is WAAAYYY to accurate to be funny... *grin* I had a question to ask and opened an ebay chat session... the helpful representitive directed me to find the answer on the Help page, under this topic, under that heading, paragraph 3... the answer consisted on 5 words that would have taken him 3 seconds to say and ended up taking 10 minutes for us to chat... Needless to say, I filled out my survey with a glowing report... there were no options for a bad review...
quote:All in all it is a more fair system now on Ebay
NO it is NOT a more fair system in ANY way.Buyers STILL earn NEG FB just because ebay says they cannot get it does not mean they should not get FB they earned rightly so sometimes a buyer earns a NEG Really it does sound like you believe that EBAY GREEDBAY & buyers can do no wrong. LOL there is 1000's of buyers who need to be NARUED. The FB system is NOT fair not even to buyers, as thier FB looks same as a bad buyer does. Wake up & smell the stink that ebay forces on sellers who sell there
quote:The thing that REALLY gets to me is the star system for delivery time. I get the stuff out within the 3 days promised. I use Canada Post. The item may or may not be delivered expeditiously but I do NOT control that yet, I get measured - rated on the Post Office's performance!
I'm with you on the star system, CW. I ship the same or next day, with exact shipping costs, using heavy duty packaging that costs me $0.75 each and still I've managed to get 2 low star reports for shipping rates and times..... That shouldn't be possible, yet it is.
quote:When a buyer pays, they have done their job. They deserve feedback. If a seller is honest and doing their best, they have no reason to fear. ************
Are you a ebay cheerleader?
And this cheerleader only addresses negative feedback (that can be reversed if all parties agree) not the fact that there is no way to survive 3 bad "star" ratings that buyers don't understand and can burn you on inadvertantly...
The author is a really big ebay cheerleader & most likely makes more $ from teaching /talking about ebay then actually selling on ebay anymore. JMHO if you have to take a course in HOW to sell on ebay you probly should stick to a 9-5 job, It is not rocket science ya know. It is a simple thing really but some buyers & GREEDBAY do make it harder then need be. I am a REAL person NOT some PC rear kissing person making $ from ebay by talking about it. I am REAL & honest too
As an eBay Certified Education Specialist, she teaches at the community college and university levels, and frequently speaks on topics such as how to make money blogging, writing eBooks and more. Crawford can be heard every Friday night on her Internet radio show, PowerSellingMomRadio, and in weekly webinars at VirtualOnlineLearning.com.
As an eBay Certified Education Specialist, she teaches at the community college and university levels, and frequently speaks on topics such as how to make money blogging, writing eBooks and more. Crawford can be heard every Friday night on her Internet radio show, PowerSellingMomRadio, and in weekly webinars at VirtualOnlineLearning.com.
I have to say that I totally disagree with the message in this article. The author has missed the bias in Ebay's attitude against sellers (you know, the ones who actually pay all the bills and make Ebay the huge profits that they enjoy. They have taken the stand that there are no bad buyers, only bad sellers. Incidently, neutral feedback is just that - neutral; neither positive nor negative. The fact is that once the feedback system was artifically weighed in one's group favor over another it became completely pointless. I noted also, that if a seller clicks onto the "Conflict Resolution" tab Ebay advises them to "do whatever the buyer suggests" which, of couse, is give them back their money so it is very clear right from the start that Ebay will be siding with the buyer rendering the whole conflict resolution process as pointless as feedback. Sadly, I only now lv. positive feedback once it has been left for me. Incidently I have far more people who bid but don't pay than I ever had before the feedback policy change. Coincidence? I don't think so.
http://shop.ebay.com/danna/m.h...&_ipg=&_trksid=p4340
Check it out What do you see 56 items listed
Item image
30 Days BLOG Coach HOW to MAKE MONEY BLOGGING Start NOW
How To sell Items on eBay for OTHERS and Make Money DVD
How to Market yourself ONLINE Webinar MARKETING SESSION
Just as I expected too makes MORE $ on HOW to sell
Just as she uses these cheerleading type articles posted on Auctiva & other sites
She JMHO is a EBAY CHEERLEADER USER making money off people hopes dreams instead of actually selling a tangible item I only saw like 5-6 items listed that were NOT about how to sell or market yourself BS listings. She just uses peoples hopes to make $ instead of actually selling real tangible hold in your hand type items. 56 listings LOL I have over 2600 active listings at all times & my items are REAL items. Not how to get rich make $ type items. This post may even get removed because of my honest opinion but at least I am a REAL person who actually sells tangible goods, instead of get rich quick schemes. I am not 1 of those types who takes advantage of people hopes to make $ on ebay by selling HOW to Books ETC
Check it out What do you see 56 items listed
Item image
30 Days BLOG Coach HOW to MAKE MONEY BLOGGING Start NOW
How To sell Items on eBay for OTHERS and Make Money DVD
How to Market yourself ONLINE Webinar MARKETING SESSION
Just as I expected too makes MORE $ on HOW to sell
Just as she uses these cheerleading type articles posted on Auctiva & other sites
She JMHO is a EBAY CHEERLEADER USER making money off people hopes dreams instead of actually selling a tangible item I only saw like 5-6 items listed that were NOT about how to sell or market yourself BS listings. She just uses peoples hopes to make $ instead of actually selling real tangible hold in your hand type items. 56 listings LOL I have over 2600 active listings at all times & my items are REAL items. Not how to get rich make $ type items. This post may even get removed because of my honest opinion but at least I am a REAL person who actually sells tangible goods, instead of get rich quick schemes. I am not 1 of those types who takes advantage of people hopes to make $ on ebay by selling HOW to Books ETC
http://completed.shop.ebay.com...p3911.c0.m283&_rdc=1
Even though they lowered the standards It makes you wonder how she stays a powerseller?
Probly ebay politics They give her perks have it because like diamond sellers since she is MAJOR cheerleader for them she provides a benifit in ways for ebay. Just a basic look 3 items less then $50 sold out of 9 ended listings since May 8. Those who do do, those who cant teach JMHO.
Even though they lowered the standards It makes you wonder how she stays a powerseller?
Probly ebay politics They give her perks have it because like diamond sellers since she is MAJOR cheerleader for them she provides a benifit in ways for ebay. Just a basic look 3 items less then $50 sold out of 9 ended listings since May 8. Those who do do, those who cant teach JMHO.
Dear Danna Crawford,
Thank you for your input about "feedback Terrorists" I prefer to call them what they really are "feedback extortionists". Pardon me but you do sound like a paid eBay hack to me since you do not sound like a typical eBay seller. I for one am greatly disappointed in eBay for among other things depriving me and all other sellers of our honest input about a buyer. I ask you, what means most to a seller? Answer; getting paid of course, and being paid in a timely manner. Hello, did you forget about that minor issue? If I am unable to provide an honest assessment of a buyer's most important credential then all of the eBay community will suffer. No seller will be forearmed with the ability to determine if a buyer is going to be high maintenance and cost us more in fees than they are worth. This policy is the single most detestable and irritating aspect of operating a business on eBay. We'll discuss listing fees and final value fees another time. I have more than a couple of times been threatened with negative feedback by such "feedback extortionists". When I look at a buyer’s feedback, it is inconclusive at best. At worst it is a convoluted distortion of the true character of the buyer. The system has no credibility and should be changed back to the way it was when sellers who are the life blood of eBay could give an honest and uncensored assessment of a transaction with a buyer based on their first hand experience. There was a fair balanced system back then. One more thing; to all sellers, do not forget to block your troublesome buyers from ever bidding again in your auctions. What's next? Is eBay going to also prevent me from blocking buyers and/or canceling a transaction with a buyer who has a history of causing more grief than they are worth? I welcome your comments to dncoins@aol.com. Thank you.
Thank you for your input about "feedback Terrorists" I prefer to call them what they really are "feedback extortionists". Pardon me but you do sound like a paid eBay hack to me since you do not sound like a typical eBay seller. I for one am greatly disappointed in eBay for among other things depriving me and all other sellers of our honest input about a buyer. I ask you, what means most to a seller? Answer; getting paid of course, and being paid in a timely manner. Hello, did you forget about that minor issue? If I am unable to provide an honest assessment of a buyer's most important credential then all of the eBay community will suffer. No seller will be forearmed with the ability to determine if a buyer is going to be high maintenance and cost us more in fees than they are worth. This policy is the single most detestable and irritating aspect of operating a business on eBay. We'll discuss listing fees and final value fees another time. I have more than a couple of times been threatened with negative feedback by such "feedback extortionists". When I look at a buyer’s feedback, it is inconclusive at best. At worst it is a convoluted distortion of the true character of the buyer. The system has no credibility and should be changed back to the way it was when sellers who are the life blood of eBay could give an honest and uncensored assessment of a transaction with a buyer based on their first hand experience. There was a fair balanced system back then. One more thing; to all sellers, do not forget to block your troublesome buyers from ever bidding again in your auctions. What's next? Is eBay going to also prevent me from blocking buyers and/or canceling a transaction with a buyer who has a history of causing more grief than they are worth? I welcome your comments to dncoins@aol.com. Thank you.
I have been attacked by the EBAY stooges for suggesting that sellers should be able to block buyers with item not received disputes against their name.
It is up to the seller to decide what proportion of non delivery disputes are appropriate ...one in a thousand, the buyer is genuine. 20 in a hundred...fend off with a bargepole time.
The pendulum has swung too far towards fraudulent buyers
It is up to the seller to decide what proportion of non delivery disputes are appropriate ...one in a thousand, the buyer is genuine. 20 in a hundred...fend off with a bargepole time.
The pendulum has swung too far towards fraudulent buyers