Frown Listing on ebay no longer any FUN.
My question to the other community members is:
since I have elected NOT to accept Pay pal, and therefore my items are always listed at the bottom of the search, am I the only one left doing this? Should I continue to TRY and sell (esp. when they have a special) or just hang up my hat.
I have meet some really nice people over the last 10 years. I am not a power seller so I don't consider myself a threat to anyone. I would just like to sell a few things every week to make all the time I spend on the computer worthwhile. I would really like to hear from some of the other members of this board. thanks for taking the time to read my message. have a great day.
Original Post
I don't understand why you don't take Paypal. Is it the fees?

I wish everyone would pay me with Paypal. I hate receiving the occasional check or MO now. It's a pain to take to the bank or ATM. The fees are worth the convenience for me anyway.
Yes---it is the fees. I know it is "easier" for the buyer AND the seller to use paypal.
I don't mind the trips to the bank because I go daily anyway.
Without the added cost of paypal fees, I am able to keep the asking $ amount down on listings, to be fair to the buyer.
There is no more buyer protection whatsoever when a buyer pays with a money order or check...Ebay got rid of that. I won't buy from a seller if they don't take PP because if something goes wrong, I have no where to turn.

I have to agree with JeffS...Smile...fees aside, it's just so easy.
I agree with PayPal being a safer money transfer method for both buyer and seller, although Goggle is sure pushing that concept with lower fees too.

I've often wondered why ebay hasn't done an incentive to Sellers for listing PayPal preferred by reducing FVF or free listing fee. I've wondered if they might tie a program like that to DSR's too. They seem to be pushing that concept to keep sellers in line and remove the stigma of flea market and buyer-beware.

Danno
The only time I don't use pay pal is if I'm selling an item with a high likelyhood of deviltry by the buyer. I have a DJ mixer I'm selling now and if I accept pay pal and the buyer gets it then wants a return and does a switch, pay pal will refund their money and I'll have to fight to get it back.I've also heard from a couple of people I know who didn't buy delivery confirmation, (why I don't know) that the buyer claimed that they never received the package and pay pal charged their account.
quote:
Originally posted by member_8880:
There is no more buyer protection whatsoever when a buyer pays with a money order or check...Ebay got rid of that. I won't buy from a seller if they don't take PP because if something goes wrong, I have no where to turn.

I have to agree with JeffS...Smile...fees aside, it's just so easy.


Hi Member 8880! Are you sure about this? When did Ebay get rid of buyer/seller protection when accepting money orders? I would think the seller protection is still effective through PayPal when shipping to confirmed address even when they pay with money order. I accept money orders all the time.
For UK sales I accept PayPal, UK cheques and postal orders, and something like 95% of sales are paid for with PP (I always use it by preference when buying).

Two years ago about 60% of my UK sales were via PP the rest cheques.

For outside of the UK I only accept PP, I may not like the fees but the qty of international sales made it worth the cost.

Another plus point is that buyers are more likely to impulse purchase with PP as opposed to writing out a cheque and an envelope, stamping it posting it and waiting forever for it to clear assuming the post office do not mis-deliver it.

I do not really mind the PP fees when weighed up against banking numerous cheques, it's not perfect but I will always offer it Smile
quote:
When did Ebay get rid of buyer/seller protection when accepting money orders?

During the last 6 months to a year ?

Just look at active listings, when it was changed it was 'spun' as an improvement when announced here. Upped the PP protection and removed it from non-PP transactions.

Having used the earlier so called protection applied to cheques it was useless. I successfully claimed against a rogue power seller and still had to pay a £15 fee and they would only accept evidence by post and fax, no e-mail, no responses or acknowledgements, despite answer or else attitude to any question they sent. Heavy handed, buyer guilty until proven innocent, basically a total waste of time and the PS kept on selling.

Personally I doubt the current protection is much better and only covers a few countries.

You are on your own !!
Hi JeanieB,

Choo is right, it's been at LEAST 6 months, actually I think it's closer to a year tho.

When you look at an item for sale, on the right side of the page is "meet the seller" where you see links to FB, other items for sale etc. At the bottom it will show Paypal Protection either $200 or $2000 (providing the seller accepts PP). There is NO more link to Ebay Buyer Protection.
The other thing I like about PP is the fact that when the auction ends, the item is typically paid for within 24 hours (many times within 30 minutes) and the item is out and gone.

With checks and MOs you have to wait around for the thing to arrive in the mail. If it's a check you have to make a decision as to whether or not to hold it for bank clearance (I don't). Meanwhile the item is still sitting on the shelf waiting to be mailed.

And... What could happen now is some newbie buyer could ding your "shipping time" star because he didn't like the fact it took him 4 weeks to get the item.

PP just speeds the entire process up.

Isn't it FUNNY how everyone here said they don't mind the PP fee, yet we bitch and moan about the eBay fee. Cool
Sorry JeanieB I forgot part of my answer for you....a person only has Paypal protection IF they use paypal. If they use a money order or check they're on their own Frown

OH, and JeffS...Just got done doing my taxes Eek With the ebay and paypal fees alone, I coild have bought a small country!! (only kidding but you know what I mean) Wow those fees really add up Frown
Appears that everybody is afraid something will go wrong with the transaction..or else, they are in a hurry for their money.
So you have to go to the bank and wait to send the item---what's the problem with that?
If the buyer needs it right now---send a message to the seller. I have worked with several buyers on this and never had a problem.
I have had buyers give me positive feedback in the form of comments and then give me less than 100% on the stars. Why?
The fact that the buyer can leave feedback in the form of a ""star"", is not fair to the seller, (esp. when the seller can not tell who rated them how). Once the package leaves the sellers hands, arrival time can not be controlled.
The star related issue can be addressed several ways...BUT what IF you send the item right away and it gets lost by the post office....Who gets blamed???? Not the post office---the seller..
What ever happened to the HONEST seller? How can you tell which is which????? I, for one, am an honest seller and would like to continue to use ebay. The recent changes and the upcoming changes have really caused an uproar in the ebay community. Is anyone listening?
quote:
So you have to go to the bank and wait to send the item---what's the problem with that?

Very inefficient use of time when selling many items a week !

quote:
What ever happened to the HONEST seller? How can you tell which is which?????

I'm more concerned about determining the honest buyer !!

quote:
Is anyone listening?

Grreedbay only listens to the cash flow rate and direction !!
ChooChooGuy--I do not sell MANY items a week. I leave this to others. I'm not in this to make a million---just pass some time, have some fun, make some new friends. I realize I'm not a money maker for ebay BUT there are or WERE a lot of sellers out there just like me, a little guy just trying to survive. Let's hear from them. With the new rules that ebay is or will implement, it takes the FUN out of daily visits to my ebay to see what's happening.
In the nine years that I have been selling on ebay, I have had only one experience where I would call the buyer dishonest.
How about an HONEST PERSON.....be it buyer and seller. It needs to be both.
Nobody should have to pay for protection.
Hi skinny,

You're right, nobody should have to pay for protection but unfortunately that's the world we live in now *sigh.

I don't see any reason why you should take Paypal if you don't want to...that's entirely up to you. To tell the truth, I applaud you for trying to keep it fun. (Which is getting harder & harder every day) Frown

Just keep on doing what you're doing, we already know the searches are being manipulated and we can't do anything about it. Just be glad you're not a NEW seller...they're REQUIRED to accept Paypal.
Hi Skinny, don't get me wrong, but ebay has ceased to be a fun place, and will rapidly become more formal as time goes by and recently there seems to be another change announced almost weekly.

quote:
Nobody should have to pay for protection.

True but we are generally have to pay taxes for law and order, house insurance and car insurance, and then there are those little extras some need to pay for like income insurance for mortgages, life insurance plumbing, central heating, medical . . . .

quote:
takes the FUN out of daily visits to my ebay to see what's happening

True again, stopped being fun about a year ago as a buyer, and selling is business regardless of size, wish I was high powered seller making millions wouldn't be up past midnight doing this myself I'd be paying others.

quote:
BUT there are or WERE a lot of sellers out there just like me, a little guy just trying to survive

I get the impression that most that get stuck into using Auctiva are more than just casual sellers because they need the tools to make their business however small more efficient, hence cost effective and thus more profitable.

Can't really see that being a casual seller really equates to someone trying to survive, sure if you can get to grips with e-selling you should try and ramp it up to make it more than just surviving.

I think all these changes over the last year have probably more effect on long term ebayers like you than relative newbies like me with a mere 2-3 years experience.

Seems like some of the recent changes are casued by thieves on ebay just like we have to have locks on our doors and insurance against theft from our houses and cars, so yes we do need to pay for protection, organised crime is everywhere these days, like it or not Frown
quote:
BUT there are or WERE a lot of sellers out there just like me, a little guy just trying to survive. Let's hear from them.


You did hear from one. I'm one.

A small seller for 11 years. At my zenith I was doing about $3000 a month. That's when I was a power seller, times were different, eBay was fun, the economy was good, people had plenty of spare money, items were still available a garage and estate sales for little cost, and pretty much everything sold for a ratio of 10:1.

No more.

It's no longer fun. And not entirely because of eBay. eBay has taken some of the fun away, the rest just left on it's own. It's actually work.

Being a Powerseller ended up being an eBay indentured slave. I was so glad the day I lost my Powerseller status. Back then it meant nothing. Probably still doesn't, except for the discounts most WON'T get.

Things are no longer cheap at garage and estate sales because those people now know where the items are going. So they want their "cut". Well, now prices to obtain items are about what you might sell it for, so there is no reason to buy things. When something cost $10 and you sold it for $75, it was amazing. But there is no reason to buy some item at a garage sale for $25 if it's going to sell for $25 (or less). I've been burned too many times. I don't bother with sales any more.

Now I sell maybe 20 items a month. I prefer Paypal. I don't view it as protection. i don't need the protection. I've never had a bad buyer experience. I want the money to move the item out quicker. It's an efficiency thing. Plus I have "funny money" I can spend on anything I want.
JeffS----thanks for checking my posting...I fully understand where you are coming from...It's just hard to accept the fact that you are the ""little"" guy and no longer matter. I, like you, had power seller status at one time and was not upset at all, when the time came, I lost it. The pressure to fulfill the requirements was not something I wanted. Owning and operating an antique store is STRESS enough for me. I just wanted something to fill the time when the store was empty.
Using Auctiva made listing much easier.
I probably would have never come here if one seller hadn't clicked off most of my listings pictures. She uses this group to watermark her pictures. Ebay did eventually catch up with her.
They took her power seller status away for a few weeks and then gave it back. Between that and non paying bidders I am both striking and taking a break. I wouldn't have any sales if it wasn't for paypal. When I see the email that they are sending a money order I have less then a 50% chance that they will. I am going in for major surgery and can't afford the long wait that many buyers give you to pay.
Irish Gal---I have only had couple of bad experiences with money orders and they have happened within the last month...Two buyers from Canada sent money orders that WERE NOT international money orders and therefore required a transaction fee, so my local bank could cash them. I had already sent the item out on one, but I had not sent the item out on the other---so I contacted that buyer of the bank notification, requested the additional fee OR gave the buyer the option to cancel the sale. The buyer elected to cancel the sale. I returned the money order to the buyer. The total sale amount was not worth asking ebay to refund my FVF. I chalked it up as selling experience.
It all depends on what you sell. In my line I am likely to see a lot of similar items to a new buyer. A lot of people don't take bidding on ebay seriously. I have a lot of items sold to one buyer and then no payment. I do block a lot of people but have no way of knowing which new person will pay. For me paypal is better. I won't buy from someone who doesn't take it because it offers you protection that the item will be sent to you.
I also wish to add that you should always go through the motions to get non paying bidder fees back. Whether you mutually decide to end the transaction or not. A Canadian would normally know to send money in American dollars. It's easy for them to do this at the banks up there. I did have an American send me a totally blank money order which needed to be signed.I had to return it. Apparently the buyer had been sending blank not signed money orders to all the sellers except for the amount.She insisted the seller fill it out. You will really run into some characters on Ebay.Reporting non paying bidders helps every seller on ebay. We don't need them We don't want them on ebay!
Greetings Skinny;

I sell and buy on ebay under another user name. This keeps my funny money separate from my professional business money.

In the instances of selling and buying under both user names, I do accept money orders and paypal. I occasionally get a MO, but not very often. Yup it is a hassle running the chump money to the bank.

On the other hand I buy antique items on Ebay with the money I make from the sale with my other user name. I upsell into antiques and then sell the antiques in another venue for double the money. A lot of times the sellers of the antique items do not accept paypal and I just send them a check. It takes awhile, but always got my items. Also the lists in search that I generated under an advanced search, never put a non papal seller at the bottom of the list. I always look at a list that has the items indexed with time ending soonest. A lot of times I bought and did not see that they did not take paypal. Didn't bother me, just knew I would not be getting my item any time soon.
I only buy from people who take paypal, and I only sell to them.

Running to the bank isn't a problem, its hanging around waiting for cheques to clear, while buyers email and email asking when you're going to post, then leave you bad feedback because they waited 2 weeks for the item (2 days to receive cheque, 5-7 working days to clear, then 2 days for them to receive item.

Paypal is much better, and the fees aren't all that bad
thanks for your reply---it's nice to know I'm not in the boat alone. Doing things the OLD fashioned way still works. I know it is easier and quicker to use paypal but I don't think everyone realizes that the cost of using that credit card, costs the seller and therefore the cost is passed on to the buyer. Honest buyers and sellers call still be found. I have had no problems with personal checks and buyers understand that it will take a little longer to get the item. I normally send the item out the day after I get the check as long as their feedback comments are good. I've given up on the numbers and the star system, to confusing for me. thanks again for taking time to send your message.
I don't add the paypal fees onto my buyers, I just take it as one of those things with running a business.

Ebay fees, and paypal fees are nothing.

I used to run a shop, and the cost of lighting, phones, rent, upkeep etc make a couple of pound here and there nothing.

If there were no ebay fees, no paypal fees, I would still charge the same, its an expense to me, not my buyer.
The problem with sending a money order or check is that you have absolutely NO recourse if the seller decides not to ship your item. Ebay got rid of their buyer protection last year, so the only way you are truly protected is if you pay with Paypal. To each his own Smile
quote:
I normally send the item out the day after I get the check as long as their feedback comments are good.

As time passes you will no longer know how many times they defaulted or bounced cheques because other sellers can no longer warn you from their experience.

The ability to reliably work this way has passed and when PayPal is a compulsory option on your listing you have no choice but to accept it if that is the way a buyer wants to pay.

In light of the inability for sellers to warn other sellers PayPal becomes the safest way to accept payments.

Isn't that convenienet for PP and eBay profits !
I still contend that the cost of using paypal is passed onto the buyer..Do you buy something for $1.00, and sell it for $1.00??? If your answer to this question is NO, then you are passing the cost of paypal onto the buyer. Whether you want to admit it or not, your selling price includes the price of: paying ebay fees and paying paypal fees, as well as what it cost you in the first place. Sure, it is quicker to use that piece of plastic. I agree with you on this point. But give the old way a chance. A personal check is not something that you should be afraid of. The fact that you talk about NO PROTECTION is like saying you have already made up your mind that you will NOT received the item/s that you order/ed. There are still honest buyers and sellers everywhere. What's that saying---stick me once, shame on you, stick me twice, shame on me.
and if I bought at $1 and sold at $1 what would be the point?

I sit down and work out ok I buy at $1, I would like to sell at $2.50

I don't then sit and say but ebays fees are going to be 50c, and paypal fees are going to be 50c, so i'm going to sell at $3.50

No I still sell at $2.50

I'm not saying you shouldn't take cheques, just that I personally don't. I've been caught up in bad cheques before, and not only do I not get paid for the item, but my bank charges me because the cheque bounces... I didn't even get the money for the item, you think i got my fees there back?

But thats just my opinion. Same as you have yours.
This is completely unrelated.Recently I sent a package that cost me $12.00 to ship to the UK. I do much business with the UK, Canada, Australia and places in Europe. The woman started emailing me right awy where is my package. After a month I gave her a full refund.
Then 2 days ago the package came back. The woman hadn't lived at the address given to me in 3 years. She became angry with me because I had her old address.
It's quite simple.

Only give a refund when the postal service refunds you. They stipulate the earliest time intervals for when an item can be claimed as lost and take their own sweet time especially for international claims.

Always use airmail as surface mail timeouts can greatly excede eBay and payPal dispute time outs.

Reds are inevitable from lazy and incompetant buyers so let them wait until the postal service machine has processed the problem.

Block them from future bidding with you as soon as they become annoying, afterall you can always remove the block later if all becomes and ends amicably.

Never just refund them due to pestering, be firm, polite and to the point, and as I said before reds are inevitable so why waste time on dozy incompetant and just downright devious buyers.
I've certainly had enough American devious buyers. I really thought that she had received the package and was taking advantage of me until it showed up at the Post Office. Quite frankly I've had very little trouble with any overseas buyers. No problems with the UK at all previous to this. Now that they are counting the neutrals as negatives I felt I couldn't afford a negative. My items are related to popular childrens books and a TV show that runs all over the world. The items are only available in the states. I'm hoping as most of the neutrals are near dropping off that my score will lift.I do try to sell on Amazon when possible. Because you know when you are paid on that site.
Ok, you can't afford a negative or a neutral these days, but the buyer could still leave one regardless of whether you refunded or not.

You don't need to wander through many other sellers feedback to see neutrals even for postal service delays or just "nice item" have a neutral because I got carried away and bid too much for it !

The way things are you can end up both out of pocket on a transaction and get penalised in the hope of good feedback or at least no feedback.
This is one of the things that angers me most about ebay. A person sees an item for less then $5.00. Theres a bidding war an the item sells for $25.00. Then the person receives the item and says this isn't worth $25.00 and gives you a neutal or negative mark. Many buyers think a nuetral remark doesn't mean something!

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