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23 replies

New Policy EBAY Excessive Shipping Amt

S suthrnjewlMember
http://search-completed.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofo...150.00&so=Show+Items

In addition to stepping up enforcement against egregious violations, we have made some clarifications to our Excessive Shipping & Handling policy. The changes outline the types of charges sellers may pass on to the buyer in the form of shipping and handling. They also provide guidelines that sellers can use to make sure their listings are in compliance with the policy. Simply stated, sellers can feel confident they are in compliance by charging actual shipping fees plus actual costs for packaging materials.

As Bill mentioned, our Community has told us – and our research confirms -- excessive shipping prices drive buyers from our site. This hurts the entire marketplace. These unfair charges also un-level the playing field, allowing some sellers to hide their costs in the shipping charges to manipulate their priority in search. In the coming months, we will be proactively looking for listings that are in violation of our policy, and we'll be following up on member reports. Please know that it will take some time to clean up the marketplace, but your help and cooperation, we can regain buyer trust and re-level the playing field for the vast majority of honest sellers.

Thank you to those of you who have been reporting examples of excessive shipping that you see on our site. It is only through working together that we will make an impact on this issue.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I wonder how well this is going to go over. I can see the report this item button being hit...ALOT.

I'll admit those sellers that send a .6 ounce item for 50.00 s/handling aggravates me. Fee Circumvension. But, even if those are reported, if they're Powersellers will eBay really care?

And for those of us who add a couple of bucks on for s/handling costs will we be seen as excessive to Joe Blow and be reported?

Well, Joe Blow can kiss my lily white patoot, cause I'm gonna charge a few bucks over shipping cost to cover my fee's!
<stomping foot>

My thoughts..how bout yours?
Donna
eCommerce Sellers Motivators "We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? But actually, who are you NOT to be?" Marianne Williamson
Original Post

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W wayoutwestMember
agreed, youve got to charge a modest amount over cost on s/h. every company does it. Heck, dell computer charged me $7 once to ship a set of 4 screws! (my fault for not asking ahead of time - to their credit, they did refund it after I complained. there was something else on that order that they totally screwed up, which gave me more leverage [and was my main complaint when i complained to them], but i dont remember now what it was) point is, though, every company does it. I betcha if you bought something online from ebay they'd charge more than actual cost on s/h.

the simplest answer to deal with those that charge excessive amounts for fee avoidance would be to lower the FVF % slightly and then charge FVF on the ENTIRE purchase (incl. S/H)

But there's too many high volume sellers that would complain and ebay wouldnt do it (some of the PESA members come to mind).
S suthrnjewlMember
quote:
Originally posted by wayoutwest:
point is, though, every company does it. I betcha if you bought something online from ebay they'd charge more than actual cost on s/h.

the simplest answer to deal with those that charge excessive amounts for fee avoidance would be to lower the FVF % slightly and then charge FVF on the ENTIRE purchase (incl. S/H)

But there's too many high volume sellers that would complain and ebay wouldnt do it (some of the PESA members come to mind).

Good thoughts!

I'm going to look at buying something from eBay (not following through) just to see what the actual shipping is.

Every viable business does this. I bought some tennis shoes from New Balance this week. Guess what? The charge was more than I knew it would cost to ship them..<shrug> I still hit buy. Did I beeayatch? Nope. It's all in the business of covering the cost of your business. When I buy from Eddie Bauer, Pottery Barn or any other places on line..there's a flat fee and I never question.

I have tried unsuccessfully to use this way of reasoning with buyers who would say, it's 3.95 for priority shipping why are you charging (they're term is normally why are you screwing me?) 5.50. Uh, well let's see, with the overage I'm charging on your item I can now take off for the Bahama's for a first class weekend at a resort. DER!

WHAT? All I can surmise is that those type of buyers must've been chewing on peyote when they said that.
<smile>

In my seven plus years of selling, lots of buyers state that it's just a part of business that the seller should eat since we don't have a brick and mortar store. Well, for the first three years I didn't. I charged exact and not a penny more. My best girlfriend is a CPA and she advised me the first years to include a handling fee. Finally it hit home! I have expenditures that should be covered.

PESA members will not have their hand smacked..you know it and I know it.

High volume sellers will get away with it..you know it and I know it. These types of rules are only enforced with smaller type sellers.

Thanks Steve,
Donna
M maggiez33Member
I purchased an item from a newer seller 2 months ago. It was costly (over $130.00 total). Before I bid on the item, I checked out the shipping cost - $7, which I though was pretty high, but oh well, I did want the item. So when I won the auction, they came back with an invoice that had an extra $2 tacked on in the seller +/- area. I emailed them, asking what it was for. They replied, after a day, that it was a handling charge, standard in all of their auctions.

I checked out all of their auctions. This person had 45 feedback, most of it from sellers - only about 6 from buyers, and all positive. I went into each and every one of their auctions, closed and still running, and saw NO disclosure of any handling charge.

So, next step was to email the seller and complain, object, etc. No response from them. I really did want the item, so after a couple of days, I paid for it through Paypal. Received it about 5 days later, and love it.

I got a really good price on my purchase, and I think they buyer was ticked off that it didn't fetch more, so they added the charge.

I left them a neutral - said nice item, but seller charged "undisclosed" handling fee.

BAM - they hit me back with a negative "BEWARE - LEAVES BAD FEEDBACK!!!" I added a reply "I leaft a neutral, which was fair".

I didn't know about Ebay's new rule regarding shipping fees. Is it too late to report this person?
R rickbradfordMember
quote:
I got a really good price on my purchase, and I think they buyer was ticked off that it didn't fetch more, so they added the charge.


Yeah, but two dollars? I bet since they're so new they just think it's okay to tack on that handling charge at the end like that.

quote:
I didn't know about Ebay's new rule regarding shipping fees. Is it too late to report this person?


Not sure. If you can still pull up the auction see if it still has the "report" link at the bottom.

The fact is the seller changed the terms after you won and that's not allowed.
S suthrnjewlMember
quote:
Originally posted by maggiez33:
I purchased an item from a newer seller 2 months ago. It was costly (over $130.00 total). Before I bid on the item, I checked out the shipping cost - $7, which I though was pretty high, but oh well, I did want the item. So when I won the auction, they came back with an invoice that had an extra $2 tacked on in the seller +/- area. I emailed them, asking what it was for. They replied, after a day, that it was a handling charge, standard in all of their auctions.

I checked out all of their auctions. This person had 45 feedback, most of it from sellers - only about 6 from buyers, and all positive. I went into each and every one of their auctions, closed and still running, and saw NO disclosure of any handling charge.

So, next step was to email the seller and complain, object, etc. No response from them. I really did want the item, so after a couple of days, I paid for it through Paypal. Received it about 5 days later, and love it.

I got a really good price on my purchase, and I think they buyer was ticked off that it didn't fetch more, so they added the charge.

I left them a neutral - said nice item, but seller charged "undisclosed" handling fee.

BAM - they hit me back with a negative "BEWARE - LEAVES BAD FEEDBACK!!!" I added a reply "I leaft a neutral, which was fair".

I didn't know about Ebay's new rule regarding shipping fees. Is it too late to report this person?

I'd get in touch with eBay so fast that buyer's head would be spinning.

They can't add more after the auction has ended..you bid on one price and one price only.

When you bid it was a legal and binding contract to that auction and the wording in that auction. That auction didn't include additional charges which weren't noted.

Oh yes, I'd be in touch with eBay ASAP. I'd notify the seller of what I was doing, too. Plus, I'd send a mutual agreement to withdraw feedback as the seller was in the wrong. Heck I might even bring Paypal into the scene as the invoiced item wasn't what you legally agreed to pay when you bid upon the item.

Go get em tiger!
Donna
W westvatexanMember
I myself add 1 lb to the actual weight of what im selling and only a $1.00 handling fee for anything I can fit into a priority box. Anything bigger than that I charge $2 or more handling, depending on what I have to add to make it safe for shipping..I have packed a few items that had to be packed very well and it added 3+ lbs to the package weight..thats a decent chunk of change for an extra 3 lbs priority..you gotta cover your butt..no doubt about it...Bubble wrap, tape, void fill, brown paper, etc. That all cost and you have to figure it in as expense in your shipping price because you sure as hell cant add it to your item price or your customer is going to just move on to a cheaper one..surely ebay can respect that!.
D dmhcollectiblesMember
quote:
Originally posted by wayoutwest:
agreed, youve got to charge a modest amount over cost on s/h. every company does it.

the simplest answer to deal with those that charge excessive amounts for fee avoidance would be to lower the FVF % slightly and then charge FVF on the ENTIRE purchase (incl. S/H)



That won't necessarily work either. I sell a LOT of items internationally. Many of them sell for only a few bucks ($5 or $6 or $10 each) but some weigh a pound or more. One pound costs $9 or $10 and up to send internationally, depending on the country. Actual cost. Vinyl records mailed to Japan or Australua cost around $13 to ship and don't even weigh a pound. I add a dollar or two handling fee to the actual shipping cost - I feel that adding any more than that would be unfair to the buyer and would deter sales. But if eBay also charged a FVF on the shipping cost, sellers who do this will get eaten alive, since PayPal already takes their bite out of the shipping amounts and any insurance amount sent. If eBay took yet another bite, it would cost more to ship internationally that what I charge, even with the extra buck or two handling fee added.
W wayoutwestMember
true, and was one of the drawbacks i was considering at the time. there is no perfect answer, unfortunately. Frown

One answer i saw on stores forums on ebay was when search results are sorted by price, to sort by price + s/h. that way at least those with lower handing fees would be better mixed in. not a perfect answer either, though, simply because of how shipping can vary based on destination.
R rickbradfordMember
quote:
When you bid it was a legal and binding contract to that auction and the wording in that auction. That auction didn't include additional charges which weren't noted.


How about those people who don't state the S&H in their listing and say they "won't know how much" until you've won? Is that in line with eBay policy? There's no way I'd ever bid on one of those auctions but I see them all the time.

I understand that some of those folks are on the up-and-up and can't figure out how to estimate the shipping beforehand. But I'm not willing to take that chance as a buyer.
D dmhcollectiblesMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Bradford:
quote:
When you bid it was a legal and binding contract to that auction and the wording in that auction. That auction didn't include additional charges which weren't noted.


How about those people who don't state the S&H in their listing and say they "won't know how much" until you've won? Is that in line with eBay policy? There's no way I'd ever bid on one of those auctions but I see them all the time.

I understand that some of those folks are on the up-and-up and can't figure out how to estimate the shipping beforehand. But I'm not willing to take that chance as a buyer.


I know what you're saying here, and I don't disagree, but truthfully there's no way to know in advance how much it will actually cost to ship a package to any given location, unless you use a priority mail flat rate envelope or box and it's staying in the US, or a global flat rate envelope (which you can't use for all countries). Since the USPS has SO many goofy different rates to every different location in the world - even within the US - the only way to come up with a fixed price is to estimate - and then you overestimate the shipping charge if the buyer is located close to you, and you underestimate if the buyer is far away. And there is absolutely no way of knowing in advance what the cost will be if it ends up being an international sale - I've seen the actual shipping charge for the same size, same weight item vary from as little as $4.40 to as high as $14, depending on which particular country it's going to.
C cakethingsMember
quote:
Originally posted by dmhcollectibles:
but truthfully there's no way to know in advance how much it will actually cost to ship a package to any given location, unless you use a priority mail flat rate envelope or box and it's staying in the US, or a global flat rate envelope (which you can't use for all countries).


Not true - in fact, I do it all the time.

For shipping within the US:
1) First class mailing/shipping is based only on weight. It doesn't matter where you are shipping. Box it up, get a weight, and you are good to go.

2) Priority and Parcel Post shipping is based on a weight/zip combination. Here, you use eBay's Calculated Shipping feature. Enter in the weight of the item, and enter in your s/h fees. The customer enters in their zip and eBay calculates the shipping cost to their location, automatically adding in your s/h fees. I've never ever had it make a mistake.

International orders are a different type of beast - there are a lot of variables. But it is still easy to quote shipping... box it up, get a weight, and look it up. I never can get the Calculated Shipping to work for international orders, but there aren't many of them anyway.
D daddyoMember
What I like about coming over here to auctiva is that my shippings are finally under controll. I transfered all my messed up inkfrog listings over to here. One by one I am rewriting them and the neat part is I am able to say on the auction if it ship to the US or not. I usually write in a different color wording like "We cannot ship this item to foreign countries including Canada!" I then do not supply any means for them to checkout on ebay or auctiva. If the item is able to be shipped. I then say "I will ship this item worldwide!" I then make the call on the ship method using say 4# and under letter post air.

All my shippings are calculated to near exact and I also add up to the next pound, simply to cover weight variance that would cost me money. I also use 2.00 handling and say so in every auction description. I also use auctiva insurance and require it for every shipment now, expecially since they can cover international shipping so cheaply as well. I also offer a full warranty, if you don't like it for any reason, send it back, for full refund, minus any shipping and handling money. I believe this is the wave of the future for ship, handling and warranty coverage. I do like that there is a lot of variance out there on these coverages, but I still think the strongest is the one I outlined here that I use.
R rickbradfordMember
quote:
I know what you're saying here, and I don't disagree, but truthfully there's no way to know in advance how much it will actually cost to ship a package to any given location, unless you use a priority mail flat rate envelope or box and it's staying in the US, or a global flat rate envelope (which you can't use for all countries).


I guess it depends on exactly how exact you want to be but I've been pretty successful in figuring out S&H beforehand. Of course, I guess it can also depend on what you ship.

What I do is I've got dummy bubble mailers in various sizes (what I mail most of my stuff in) that are loaded with everything I'll be using (cardboard flat, etc.). When I write my listings I weigh each item with the appropriately-sized dummy mailer and list flat-rate shipping for First Class, Priority, Canada, Mexico and Everywhere Else (all int'l are Airmail). I use France as a gauge for Everywhere Else because it tends to run a little higher.

I factor in a handling fee and Delivery Confirmation and, voila, I've got my flat rate. The vast majority of the time my estimation is dead on or close enough. Usually if it's considerably off it's because I decided I needed to include an extra cardboard flat or decided to send use a box instead of a mailer or something like that.

The "Everywhere Else" countries, of course, can vary a bit but I haven't run into any serious rate differences yet (although I bet it's possible).

I guess my view is (a) people like to know up front what the S&H is and, (b) it seems like it'd be a whole lot easier to get eBay on your side in the event of post-auction gouging if the listing itself gives you what you need to fight it.

Mind you, it's not that I'm telling anyone what they should do! This is just my view as a buyer.
D daddyoMember
I would like to add that auctiva gives you 2 places on each auction for you to put your zip code into, to get the ship price for the ship methods I have recommended. I had seen these before coming to auctiva, but never had access to this. Inkfog had something of a joke calculator for doing this and it never worked for anyone. So glad that auctiva has the customer ship calculator. I used do flat rate, but someone in the next state was funding the shipping cost to someone 10 states away. With real time shipping, everyone pays according to where they live on the planet.
L leahyrlwMember
Well, I guess I operate a little like Rick does. I package and weigh each item before I list it, include $2.00 handling fee and the calculator does the rest. That way, we don't run the risk of cheating anyone, including myself. I found out when I first started this, that if I underestimated the weight, which needs to including the shipping materials, I lost money. We have eaten a few mistakes from days past. Ebay also has a policy that you can't charge more than the calculator shows. We also combine shipping and our customers seem to appreciate the savings and seems to have encouraged repeat business. We weight it up when they are finished shopping, add $2.00, insurance when necessary and we're done. Kind of simple. I have found that sometimes the UPS shipping is different that what I thought it should be - not sure why.
I think it's a crap shoot whether people hit the report button. Some people don't have a life and are just prone to do that. That's what the block bidders list is for.
Good luck to all. Hate to see it made even more difficult.
Rosemary
D dmhcollectiblesMember
quote:
Originally posted by Rick Bradford:
quote:
I know what you're saying here, and I don't disagree, but truthfully there's no way to know in advance how much it will actually cost to ship a package to any given location, unless you use a priority mail flat rate envelope or box and it's staying in the US, or a global flat rate envelope (which you can't use for all countries).



The "Everywhere Else" countries, of course, can vary a bit but I haven't run into any serious rate differences yet (although I bet it's possible).

I guess my view is (a) people like to know up front what the S&H is and, (b) it seems like it'd be a whole lot easier to get eBay on your side in the event of post-auction gouging if the listing itself gives you what you need to fight it.

Mind you, it's not that I'm telling anyone what they should do! This is just my view as a buyer.


Rick, if you use France as your standard you may be making a big mistake. Just my humble opinion, but France is one of the cheapest places I mail to. Try Slovakia, or Thailand, or Japan, China, even Australia ... or Russia etc. I mail to a LOT of different countries (I lost count at about 75 different countries a while back) and believe me, at least for the stuff I mail, France is cheaper than many.

I don't have a problem giving a shipping quote if someone emails their zip code or country while the item is still active - I can get back to them very quickly with that info. The problem I have is with giving a fixed price S & H amount when I don't know where it will be shipped yet.

The calculators don't always work right, I've read horror stories about sellers taking baths because of it.
R rickbradfordMember
quote:
Rick, if you use France as your standard you may be making a big mistake. Just my humble opinion, but France is one of the cheapest places I mail to.


Thanks for the tip, dmh, good to know.

And I also won't use the shipping calculator -- mostly because I like the shipping to be stated but also because I've heard too many horror stories..

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