Auto Feedback is obsolete

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Originally posted by gakerlund:
The new eBay feedback policy doesn't allow anything but positive feedback for buyers, rendering the idea of leaving feedback after it is received useless. Instead, I think Auctiva should have "auto feedback" for after payment is received. Anyone else agree?

Well from my understanding, Auctiva's auto feedback will only send Positive Feedback to the buyer once they leave Positive to the seller. So would that not be the same as 'auto feedback' for after payment is received? I guess I don't fully understand what you mean.

As for me.. I am going to turn off Auctiva's Auto Feedback system. Going manual and will 'probably' only give positive feedback when a customer has received the product and have contacted me requesting feedback. This is the only way I can think of minimizing abuse from buyers.....

This is ridiculous!!! Why would eBay do this? It's not fair to sellers at all. If a buyer decides they aren't happy with an item and they don't contact the seller before leaving feedback, (as 90% of unhappy buyers do), the seller is screwed. We'll see a lot more suspended sellers VERY soon because of their ratings. They added other "incentives" to make the changes look better. This one decision may be the downfall of eBay IMO.

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Originally posted by Rock Bottom Galaxy:
Well from my understanding, Auctiva's auto feedback will only send Positive Feedback to the buyer once they leave Positive to the seller. So would that not be the same as 'auto feedback' for after payment is received? I guess I don't fully understand what you mean.

Auctiva states: "Enable Auto Feedback: When enabled, a positive feedback message will automatically be sent to the buyer after you receive a positive feedback message from them. Neutral and negative feedback await follow-up on an individual basis."

However, since sellers can only leave positive feedback for buyers now, I think auto feedback should be changed (or at least amended) to have the option of leaving positive feedback immediately after payment is received. I personally see no point in waiting to leave feedback with the new policy change. I'll just leave feedback immediately for the buyer. I can see how some sellers might choose to leave no feedback in lieu of negative feedback, however.

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Originally posted by Simple-Cinema:
This is ridiculous!!! Why would eBay do this? It's not fair to sellers at all. If a buyer decides they aren't happy with an item and they don't contact the seller before leaving feedback, (as 90% of unhappy buyers do), the seller is screwed. We'll see a lot more suspended sellers VERY soon because of their ratings. They added other "incentives" to make the changes look better. This one decision may be the downfall of eBay IMO.

That goes both ways however. The old feedback policy protected bad sellers as much as honest sellers. The new policy shifts more protection towards the buyers (both honest and dishonest). I wouldn't worry about your rating though, every seller's rating is going to drop somewhat, not just yours. Since it will affect everyone to some extent, honest sellers like yourself will still do just as much business as before.

gakerlund,
No offense to you, please, we're all entitled to an opinion, but the way FB is done now, with all it's faults, is 10000 X better than what they are proposing..The buyer scenarios are endless...and very scary.
Didn't get item next day=neg seller
Thought shipping was too high but bought it anyway=neg seller
Wrapped in green tissue, I hate green=neg seller (this one is actually out there somewhere for real)

I guess I've been lucky, 99% of my buyers have been great to deal with. But there's always that psycho 1% that will either give negs just for fun, or are completely ignorant of the way ebay works.

JMHO

IMO you only need auto feedback when a major seller, by which time it probably does not matter about the new feedback system.

If you are a lesser seller IMO it is better to custom feedback and then always after the buyer.

Currently with Auctiva, you canNOT auto-neg someone

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canNOT auto-neg someone

Sounds logical, now you say it, afterall you are supposed to sort out the problem first, mind you if they negged you before making contact what incentive do you have except neg them back and let them apply for mutual withdrawal.

edit - ebay's auto is the same is it not ?

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Anyone else agree?

We'll need to change our feedback. The logical choice would be to auto positive the buyer upon payment. I think that creates the most goodwill and will lead to a happier customer, thus higher DSR's, and thus lower fees and more goodies for you from eBay if you qualify.

Granted I'm nowhere near the seller anyone here is but I've sold around 400 items over the years and almost always left the positive upon receiving payment. I know it won't be a popular opinion but I've thought that's how it should be all along and was secretly hoping for this change at the seller summit in D.C. which I got back from earlier this week.

Retaliatory feedback turns off buyers and makes them not want to buy on eBay. In the past few years sellers were doing it at a rate 8x more than buyers. So while buyers do it too sellers did it more. The result being that neither left any feedback except positives. Buyers then have a harder time telling a really good seller from a really average seller and their buying experience suffers. I think Auctiva sellers are the really great sellers and I think you guys will see the most benefit from this.

Of course eBay needs to follow through on their promise to be more proactive in removing unwarranted negs left by buyers now. I hope they will.

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I guess I've been lucky, 99% of my buyers have been great to deal with. But there's always that psycho 1% that will either give negs just for fun, or are completely ignorant of the way ebay works.

If that's the case you're going to do great with this. Let the 1% be psycho. Don't worry about it. You'll end up way ahead of the average sellers with a much lower %. Until now you and that seller were probably had similar feedback ratings but now I think they'll get their deserved negs and you'll get your few psycho negs and still come out way ahead. Buyers will then for the first time be able to decide between a seller with a 96 or 97% and you with a 99%. And for once it will mean something. Until now all it meant is was the seller probably held the feedback hostage, did a retaliatory neg, then both agreed to mutually withdraw.

I think it's going to work out but let's see in 2-3 months. We keep a close track on our sellers sales and I think I have a decent pulse on how eBay's sales are doing. I think I'll be able to tell by May or so how all the new changes are working.

Jeff

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The logical choice would be to auto positive the buyer upon payment.

You have got to be kidding, glad I do not use auto feedback, why not let effbay do that for us and you save an software update !

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So while buyers do it too sellers did it more

Probably because regular sellers are involved with many more transactions and are more experienced. Although buyers of profile less than 10 frequently bid higher than others they are also more likely to misunderstand the feedback system especially if they have overbid and did not read the listing.

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I think I'll be able to tell by May or so how all the new changes are working

Surely a few months on after the dust has settled ?

With all due respect I find your support of effbay in this rather disturbing.

It has usually been buyers that 'forget' to leave feedback for me, but I have also been frustrated by sellers who wait for my pos. feedback before giving me any. I think immediate payment is worth immediate pos. feedback.
However, I feel that an even playing field for both buyer and seller would be a feedback system that would not release either parties feedback until both were recieved. This is such an easy thing for Ebay to do. By having a system that does not release feedback until the second person's has been entered, it would forced both parties to leave feedback if they want feedback. It would also illiminate the possiblity of retaliation and might make both people "think" before writing anything at all.
Before long, Ebay will take our right away to leave feedback for a buyer by giving it automatically upon payment, and the rest of us can only hope the buyer does leave feedback and that when he/she does, it is a true reflection of the item and service.

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With all due respect I find your support of effbay in this rather disturbing.

We need sellers to be successful. The more they are successful the more we are. In this case I think it's the right decision. I don't think I'm drinking eBay's Kool-aid here I honestly believe it's the best thing for sellers.

A system of holding feedback until both parties have left it wouldn't work because sellers wouldn't leave feedback and especially they wouldn't leave it in any case where a buyer has complained and returned an item. Nor does it encourage the two to work out disagreements that arise. Of course the new system mainly encourages the seller to make the buyer happy in the event of a complaint. It's not perfect, but a lot better than it was because feedback actually means something now. Buyers can leave the rating a seller deserves. Some will abuse that but it will be a small number. A good seller will have a good rating and the bad ones will get negs at a far higher rate than they did before. It will be easier for buyers to tell the difference.

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I think immediate payment is worth immediate pos. feedback

Ooo valleychic, don't get me started on that one! You are REQUIRED to pay..I don't think would necessarily deserve pos FB for something you're required to do. A seller is REQUIRED to ship...but if they took 30 days to do so, would that be positive for you? Of course not. Just because someone pays immediately doesn't mean they are going to be deserving of pos. FB..They can just as easily turn into a nightmare after the sale, believe me, we've all had it happen. The stories are endless, too many to go into now but I would suggest doing some reading in Ebay's Answer Center and see for yourself.
As for me, as a seller, I will still leave it after I recieve it

I'm not a power or high-volume seller, so I don't have as much experience as most of the sellers here. However, I also don't have the emotional attachment that most of the people upset by this policy have.

Having said that, I think the new FB policy is a good idea. The old policy protected ALL sellers. It protected good sellers from bad buyers, but it also protected bad sellers from good buyers. If a seller ripped off a buyer, all he had to do was retaliate with negative feedback and request a mutual withdraw. Bam, no more negative feedback. Sadly, many buyers probably never even left negative feedback in the first place, fearful that they would get one back.

The result? Horrible sellers with ridiculously high feedback ratings, and an entire generation of buyers that were "turned off" from ebay because of 1 bad transaction.

Ebay had a web seminar that I thought was very interesting. You can view it here: https://www110.livemeeting.com/cc/vcc-ic03/viewReg These are the slides I thought were most relevant to the FB changes:


http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/9172/slide5zp3.png
"Bad buying experience" is the #1 reason buyers leave ebay, and the #3 reason they buy less. And people wonder why "Most buyers are also sellers." All the buyers left!

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8623/slide9kj5.png
Notice how inflated seller feedback ratings are compared to DSRs. Buyers are afraid to express their true feelings about the transaction.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4836/slide10kr8.png
This is the stat Jeff was referencing. Sellers retaliate with negative feedback 8 times more frequently than buyers.

I don't think the sellers on this forum have anything to worry about. The few bad apples that would abuse the system are vastly outnumbered by good, honest buyers. The people who should really be worried are the bad sellers: the scammers, the counterfeiters, and those who charge $20 shipping for $.99 items. They are the ones who will be affected, not you guys. In the long run, I think sellers will benefit greatly from the new policy. More buyers = more business = more money to ebay and sellers.

-Geoff

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Horrible sellers with ridiculously high feedback ratings, and an entire generation of buyers that were "turned off" from ebay because of 1 bad transaction.

See, this is what I find REALLY hard to believe, JMHO...I think people are a little more thick skinned than THAT...I don't believe this statement for a minute.

Most of the time, an uniformed new buyer doesn't know that they can file a dispute/claim if something goes wrong...Ebay's boards are filled with questions from buyers who've had a bad transaction and are asking about leaving negative FB, rather than concentrate on trying to recoup their money. Now that's just ridiculous. People just want to just jump the gun when handing out negs. Newbies think that FB is supposed to be used for communication, so rather than contact their seller directly, they leave a neutral or a neg.

Like I said, I have been very lucky with my buyers, but this stuff does happen, I see it all the time. Hypothetical Scenario: What am I supposed to do with the buyer who wears and ruins my NWT item that she paid over $50 for, files a SNAD with PP, and I have to refund? And to top it off I can't even leave a neg ??
This whole change is WRONG on so many levels...I'm a good seller and I resent being lumped in with the scum..JMHO.

EDIT - Don't forget, as a BUYER people can see retaliation for what it is. Negs like that don't really hurt buyers at all. I have 4 buying ID's and almost every one of them has a retalitory neg. It hasn't hurt my ability to buy one bit. These were really horrible transactions, and I left the neg first (no caps, no name calling, just a short explanation of the problem). The negs I got in return were hysterical, screaming caps etc. They actually made me laugh and I never thought about not buying anymore..Anyone in their right mind could see this for what it was. As a buyer I'm not concerened with FB, but as a seller it's a different story. It's my RIGHT to give an honest opinion of the non payer or the scammer or whatever, if I so choose.

valleychic

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think immediate payment is worth immediate pos. feedback

Never !!!

So they pay then unjustifiably dispute the condition of the goods, demand partial or full refund or going to neg you. No, the transaction is not over til they are happy with the whole transaction and that can be confirmed by thier positve fedback to you the seller. Once they are happy I am happy and leave them positive too.

You leave yourself open to fraud especially if your feedabck to date is 100% positive. Don't forget the buyers are not stupid some darn right devious, and may have bid much higher than they intended. Or just see the oportunity to make some extra cash at your expense, and you don't get any FVF refund for partial refunds either.

And I am always prepared as a buyer to leave feedback first !

Jeff

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It will be easier for buyers to tell the difference.

And IMPOSSIBLE for sellers to tell the difference !!!

It affects our livelihood, not a buyers they are SPENDING thier income we are trying to MAKE income, that is also a very BIG difference.

Ok we know where you stand

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Ok we know where you stand

I'm on the side of sellers making more money, and I think this does it.

I think the problem is that you only have 1 negative in over 1500+ feedbacks. You're probably going to get more negatives. But at least the score will mean something now. What you have now is a combination of happy buyers and those afraid to leave you a negative in fear you'd leave one back, an artificial 99.9%. And buyers know it, if they are like me they probably figure you are closer to 99%.

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The result? Horrible sellers with ridiculously high feedback ratings, and an entire generation of buyers that were "turned off" from ebay because of 1 bad transaction.

I normally multiply a sellers negatives by 10. So if they have a 98% rate. I really figure they hare more near a 90% rate. You have a 99.9%. I figure that's more like 99%. Still 99% is much better than a 90%. Those types of sellers will be gone in the new system and your rating will be about as good as it gets. And if it's higher than 99% then it will really mean it this time. Buyers knowing that will have more confidence in eBay, spend more, bid higher, come back more to purchase, etc. You'll have a 99% the guy that had a 98% will have a 90% and be gone and more sales and higher prices for you.

I think sellers with near perfect feedback such as yourself probably are extorted for feedback more frequently. eBay has said they will police this more vigilantly going forward and if you are extorted they will remove a buyers negative. They will also remove negatives from those kicked off eBay, even if it's months or years later. Eventually bad buyers will be caught up with and kicked off and when that happens all their negs they left sellers goes with them.

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I don't think the sellers on this forum have anything to worry about. The few bad apples that would abuse the system are vastly outnumbered by good, honest buyers. The people who should really be worried are the bad sellers: the scammers, the counterfeiters, and those who charge $20 shipping for $.99 items. They are the ones who will be affected, not you guys. In the long run, I think sellers will benefit greatly from the new policy. More buyers = more business = more money to ebay and sellers.

Well said, my thoughts exactly.

Jeff. Fees and increases are a fact of life and as you can see from my profile etc that in fact for most of my current items in the UK the fees rise will not affect me much if at all. (For other readers the fee changes are structured different in the UK to USA AND we still have to pay for gallery).

But for higher value items which I will be listing again shortly yes they do bother me to the tune of an extra 70p per item listed at 99p and even selling for only £29.99, and even more to the greedbay coffers for higher value sales.

Although extremely irritating considering how much they sting us over here, with their fantasy exchange rate of 1 penny GBP = 1 cent USD, the feedback system maiming is an easy option for greedbay and is potentially more harmful when you consider how quick they are to condemn and pull you for what ever reason. The seller is guilty until proven innocent.

The system used on Amazon market place cannot be upheld as others seem to do as a comparison to the greedbay venue, they are quite different when it comes to the buyer seller relationship.

I have worked hard to get my profile where it is and the only negative I had was with a rash bidder who overbid on a damaged toy (listed as damaged) and then wanted a partial refund, dialogue was fruitless and in the end I considered it best to stand firm and lose my ebay profile virginity so it could no longer be held over my head like a sword. That was when I had a profile of about 50 as a seller, nearly 1500 positives ago.

So yes, let's have all buyers with positives, so we the sellers cannot block in advance troublesome timewasters so why bother with the feedback anyway. Seems little point in me worrying about leaving it to buyers in future.

So I am disgusted, and will be moving away as soon as is economically possible.

Jeff just re-read your last post closer via this board :-

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What you have now is a combination of happy buyers and those afraid to leave you a negative in fear you'd leave one back, an artificial 99.9%. And buyers know it, if they are like me they probably figure you are closer to 99%

That is insulting you can see my DSR's are 3x4.9 and a 4.7 if they were that scared why did they not just trash my DSR's, they are not the DSR of a fearsome bad seller, you will also notice that a large quanity of those feedbacks are repeat buyers, my they fear and despise me !!!

Well I don't think anyone can deny that something needed to change, regarding leaving negative feedback, I see it as a problem the way most negatives ended up as retaliatory. You leave negative feedback for me, I'll leave negative feedback for you. It was actually the policy of some sellers to do that. As a buyer, I felt uncomfortable purchasing from such sellers.
Whether or not eBay made the right changes, I'm not so sure, but only time will tell. And I'm not worked up about it, maybe just my nature, but I say let's wait and see how it goes.

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As a buyer, I felt uncomfortable purchasing from such sellers.

Well that was your choice and visible on the sellers profile, I always check out an unfamiliar seller if I intend bidding on an expensive item, just like I wouldn't buy a car from a dodgey geezer down the pub !

And if the seller lost sales that is his personnally inflicted problem.

This scenario of crippled feedback is one thrust upon us by greed and those that have a vested interest in not upsetting greedbay because their business is significantly dependent on them.

Still that's business dog eat dog !

Quite frankly, I'm not really worried about feedback, I believe that no matter what kind of feedback system, a good honest seller IS going to shine through. Treat you customers as you'd like to be treated, and you WILL build a reputation.
I'd be more worried about rising fees, and even that doesn't really bother me because eBay is where the traffic is, and as long as my items sell and I'm making money, I'm happy.

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Treat you customers as you'd like to be treated, and you WILL build a reputation.

I do, I have, and intend keeping it despite greedbay and everyone associated toeing the company line !!

And it's a pity greedbay don't think the same, just goes to prove monopolise the market and it does not matter how you treat your customers.

Still they are building the kind of reputation they deserve

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and even that doesn't really bother me because eBay is where the traffic is, and as long as my items sell and I'm making money, I'm happy

I just hope greedbay does not read this as they will put up your fees to please you

LOL! Well, if they put them up to the point where I'm NOT making money, then I will shed a tear!

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That is insulting you can see my DSR's are 3x4.9 and a 4.7

That was meant to be a complement. A 99% is a very good feedback. If you were to translate you current DSR's to a 1 to 100 scale though it would be a 97%. Currently only around 15% of eBay sellers have scores that high. That makes you among the best sellers.

I've sold near 400 items on eBay. I know what buyers are like and there is no making some of them happy. I would not expect any seller to have a 99 or 100% feedback. If they did I would know they are bending over backwards to treat their buyers well. But right now as a buyer I can't tell the difference between that seller and a bad one.

Auctiva Jeff,

It's a given that Auctiva is going to have to adjust autofeedback for immediately after payment is made.

Do you see in the near future, Auctiva supporting other Auction Sites such as wagglepop or ecrate?

It would help SO much if we could offer payment via revloutionmoneyexchange.com - A FREE SECURE financial option for sellers.

What do you see in your crystal ball?

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This is a policy I now follow, having learned from savvy successful sellers, but I am not happy about it. I used to leave immediate pos. feedback for people who paid me immediately and shipped the item immediately. Never heard from the buyer again... no feedback etc. One of my buyers lived in a city that my parents lived, half an hour from my house so I agreed to hand deliver the item. Talk about service! The customer saved money on shipping, got service with a literal smile, immed. feedback for immed. payment, and I didn't get as much as a 'thank you' let alone a positive. So I leave feedback when the transaction is complete and both parties are satisfied with the final result. And like yourself, when the customer is happy... I am happy.

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Do you see in the near future, Auctiva supporting other Auction Sites such as wagglepop or ecrate?

No, see this thread: https://community.auctiva.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/855609321/m/2931083172