The Game is already being played, EBay is just changing the game rules.
In a game, all the players should start out equal and this is not the case with Ebays new FB system.
The Buyer now has all the power in the feedback game and the seller gets Squat, zip, notta, Zilch!

EBay’s thoughts-> "Resistance is futile, you will all be assimilated!"

Crooks have manipulated eBay and its listing for a long time now.
It has now become way too easy to take a good honest seller, with great feedback, and stick his sales in the toilet.

The new feedback system will allow for a seller and or buyer “Crook and or Crooks” to manipulate the system easier then ever before..

Lets say we have a powerseller or just a plain old seller for that matter "Lets call this seller "powerseller A"..
Powerseller "A" has a very good FB score of 99% and all 4.8 or above on their DSR's ratings.. Powerseller “A” is an outstanding person with high integrity and morals.

Under the new system, Powerseller "A’s" listings would be placing in the top of the Ebay search ranks. Powerseller “A” would enjoy a 15% fee cut on his FVF's. He would be on top of the Ebay world, but not for long!

Now along comes, seller "B" or Powerseller "B". He also has a good feedback rating of 100% , which is a higher rank than seller "A" has.
Seller "B" however has a lower DSR ratings than seller "A". Lets say Seller "B's" DSR ratings are 4.6 or higher, any lower than a 4.6 and the seller "B" would lose his status as a powerseller, OUCH!..
Even if seller "B" has a higher feedback score, Seller "B's" DRS ratings are lower so all his listings will rank below powerseller "A'" within the search ranks.

Powerseller "B" however is really 3 or 4 crooks working together.
These crooks only need and buy a few cheap products from powerseller "A". These blood suckers would even leave you a positive feedback for the sale but when it comes to the DSR ratings they nail powerseller "A" with very LOW ratings. At this point, a few cheap deals later, Powerseller "A'" DSR ratings drop below 4.6. Seller "A" is no longer eligible for powerseller status under the new Ebay guidelines. Seller “A” would also loose the 15% discount on FVF's and their top search placements within Ebay.

Don't forget that every 7days under the new FB system the same crooks can leave FB again and unlike before it counts again. Every few days the crooks could repeat the above manipulation. Just a few miss placed DSR ratings could screw a good seller for about 30 days.

A few savvy crooks could end up controlling the EBay search ranks and in turn manipulating his or her competition. The crooks now have a simple way to take away the competition’s powerseller status.

There is nothing like taking an already broken F.B. system and screwing it up even more!
What in hell is EBay thinking?

I have been on EBay for 10 years now and selling for 8, just when I think I have seen it all, eBay can't possibly get any dumber, they prove me wrong, AGAIN!

Heck with Ebay's last price hike a few years ago, along with Papal, both of then together, already make more money on my items then I do. Now they want even more!? After EBay's last price hike I joined http://ebaykickbacks.com and that helped me recoup some of my lost profits, every little bit helps these days. With this new price hike and feedback system it looks like I just might be up, up the creek with out a paddle!

Oh well, at least I will have plenty of company in the boat with me. Let’s see if it sinks faster than the titanic did.

At this point I am totally fed up with ebay and their actions, IMO they are out of touch with reality and have forgot who is paying the bills around here in the first place!

Some people were just born stupid, that can't be helped, but I think ebay worked real hard for their stupidity!

Take it from a 10+ year powerseller veteran of FEEBAY...
....If you are a new seller, with honesty and integrity, thinking about selling on Ebay you might think twice and don't walk away, RUN!



The Crooks will remain as crooks and the honest seller will be forced out.


GAME OVER, YOU LOSE!!!!!!!!


Dsouth
-------------------------- Dsouth I List at http://eBid.net and Not eBay because I like my money in my pocket instead of ebays. - I earn Cash back on almost ALL of my Online purchases at http://BigCrumbs.com and it's 100% free.
Original Post
quote:
A few savvy crooks could end up controlling the EBay search ranks and in turn manipulating his or her competition.

I don't think so. I attended a session on this at the eBay seller summit in Washington D.C. this past week that discussed the basic formula they used. A sellers DSR's are only part of what influences the Best Match search order.

There may be a few competitors trying to influence their competitors rank but it will take more than that. As eBay sees these manipulations happy they can fix them and change their secret "Best Match" sauce behind the scenes to compensate. After all they are encouraged to do so because they make more money when things sell better because it's showing you a true best match list.
Sorry, don't buy it. Crooks could have already been doing it.

Many sellers have expressed concern that bad buyers may extort them with the threat of negative feedback, and taking away the ability to leave a buyer negative feedback takes away sellers' leverage. eBay states, "We'll increase our monitoring, and take action based on seller reports of buyers behaving very badly."

Buyers will be held more accountable when sellers report an unpaid item or commit other policy violations.
That may be true but as stated by eBay
If ANY of your DSR falls below a 4.8 you lose
the 15% refund on FVF. You will get a 5% refund instead

If ANY DSR's fall below 4.6 you lose powerseller status and you get zip for a refund.

The playing field is one sided with all the power in the buyers hands.

IMHO Ebay is simply out of touch with reality.

Right now under the new guidelines thousands of powersellers will lose such status. This might be a good thing in many cases however it is way to easy to fall below a 4.6 on the DSR's.


I have had powerseller status for about 5 years, with a 99% feedback score, and my DSR's look like this.

Items as described 4.9
Communication 4.9
Shipping time 4.9
Shipping & Handling 4.6

My shi includes all costs, no hidden charges like insurance, Delivery confirmation, Signature receipt and the likes.

I mainly ship U.S. priority Mail and charge a very reasonable 5.99, On most items, for all the above services. I feel my SHI for all it includes is one of the cheapest on feebay and yet my SHI DSR is right on the edge of me loosing powersaeller status under the new eBay guidelines. I feel this is CRAZY! If I should loose such PS status over such an issue I will close my Ebay store in a New York Second.

I have worked hard for my PS status and DSR's. eBay has made it way to easy for a buyer to put my status in the toilet!
quote:
If ANY of your DSR falls below a 4.8 you lose the 15% refund on FVF. You will get a 5% refund instead. If ANY DSR's fall below 4.6 you lose powerseller status and you get zip for a refund.


Big deal. I'm not a Powerseller anymore. I was, for 5 years, and back then it meant NOTHING. All it meant was the right to display a logo and get a quicker response to support email. It also meant I was an eBay slave because I kept getting emails towards the end of my Powerseller status that I was "below" the threshold to keep my status. Well, that made me work harder to keep my status, and I did keep my status, and then a rate change came along. I finally said the hell with it, what am I working so hard for?

REGULAR USERS GET NOTHING from this DSR plan. I get no discount. This is only for the Powerseller elite. So, if you're a Powerseller, and this worries you, you better be on your best behavior.

I say EVERY USER should get a discount if they keep their DSR score at 4.8. I've been selling for 11 years, I have a combined feedback score of 3600 (3017 positives) and I have 0 negative or neutral feedback. Why shouldn't I qualify for a discount? Because I'm a little shit, that's why. This all comes back to my basic beef, and that's the cost of selling.

My DSR scores?

Described: 4.8
Communication: 4.9
Ship time: 4.8
Ship charges: 4.7

Based on 42 ratings. Not much, I know, but I'm a small seller remember? A little shit who doesn't qualify for any savings. What's my incentive? In a word, none.

The feedback changes don't bother me in the least. I'm more concerned about 40% less profits.

By the way, your DSR scores, you didn't mention how many ratings they were based on.

I think everyone's "S&H" star rating is lower than the others. This is natural because buyers feel shipping prices are too high and they are simply voicing their opinion (admittedly at the wrong person). As a seller I think shipping prices are too high, and I agree the the S&H star is poorly thought out, but that's the game. Play it.
Jeff it is a big deal.

The real game here is "MONEY" and lets not loose track of that.

EBay comes across with what they call a fee reduction which really is a major fee increase.

They sugar coat this HUGE fee increase with a so-called refund structure for its elite sellers based on your DSR ratings alone.

EBay being money hungry and keeping par for the course they have made it close to impossible to get the FVF % refund.

Now watch out for PAYPAL they will soon follow EBay and raise their rates.

EBay is a money hungry beast and I am getting just a bit tired of trying to feed the never ending hunger this huge beast has.

The seller is being singled out for all of EBay's fee increases!
Why not charge the buyer a 5% buyers premium or something like that and leave the seller alone for once!
quote:

The real game here is "MONEY" and lets not loose track of that.


Agree.

quote:
EBay comes across with what they call a fee reduction which really is a major fee increase.


Agree.

quote:
They sugar coat this HUGE fee increase with a so-called refund structure for its elite sellers based on your DSR ratings alone.


Powersellers only. I get no discount. I mean nothing to eBay after selling for 11 years and keeping a 100% feedback profile BASED ON THOSE 11 YEARS, not just the last year like the new method will mean.

quote:
EBay being money hungry and keeping par for the course they have made it close to impossible to get the FVF % refund.


Welcome to my world. Since I get no discount to begin with, It's not that much of a concern to me. In which case my DSR rating becomes a think of personal pride for me.

I also don't think it's impossible to keep that rating at 4.8. If you run a high volume shop, and most powersellers do, I agree it could be hard to maintain.

quote:
Now watch out for PAYPAL they will soon follow EBay and raise their rates.


I don't agree with you here.

quote:
EBay is a money hungry beast and I am getting just a bit tired of trying to feed the never ending hunger this huge beast has.


You just figure this out? Big Grin I learned that years ago.

quote:
The seller is being singled out for all of EBay's fee increases!


Of course. That's where the money comes from. Don't like it? "go someplace else". Oh, there is no place else? Gee, imagine that.

quote:
Why not charge the buyer a 5% buyers premium or something like that and leave the seller alone for once!


Simple. As soon as you start charging buyers, there won't be any buyers.

My sarcastic remarks aren't necessarily directed towards you, they are just sarcasm.
I seldom come in here but last night I really slept good for the first time in three days. I had such a good dream. Auctiva opened an auction site and I was so good to go. I just felt like I won the lottery being in the right place again at the right time. It was much like I felt when I first started selling on ebay in 1999. Auctiva Jeff had a face but he looked like he was about 15 years old. He was holding his two victory fingers up and passing out buttons on a platform. The buttons said Auctiva: Who better prepared?"
quote:

Powersellers only. I get no discount. I mean nothing to eBay after selling for 11 years and keeping a 100% feedback profile BASED ON THOSE 11 YEARS, not just the last year like the new method will mean.


That's my point, you will soon have a many many more people in the same boat as you. I think you are going to need a bigger boat, my friend!


quote:

Welcome to my world. Since I get no discount to begin with, It's not that much of a concern to me. In which case my DSR rating becomes a think of personal pride for me.


The DSR's should be a thing of personal pride and they were and still are a pride issue for many people. However they will now also help determine your search rankings within the eBay system. In short, many people are getting charge higher fees and getting less service. Another fact of life, I know!

quote:

You just figure this out? Big Grin I learned that years ago.


Ebay's greed was never in question, not in my mind, anyways.
It has just gotten to the point where it's ridiculous, that’s all.

quote:

Of course. That's where the money comes from. Don't like it? "go someplace else". Oh, there is no place else? Gee, imagine that.


Things come about out of need and necessity.
Every time eBay pulls a stunt like this the need grows even larger.
Ebay is has gotten to big for its britches and it will be it's own undoing!

quote:

Simple. As soon as you start charging buyers, there won't be any buyers.


Most Brick and mortar auction houses charge the buyers a premium. They seem to keep and maintain plenty of business despite charging the buyer. A lot of the stuff "JUNK" you find on auction at Ebay came from such a place.

quote:

My sarcastic remarks aren't necessarily directed towards you, they are just sarcasm.



I really don't take very much said, as personal, within internet message bases. These threads tend to be sounding areas where people can blow off some steam. It is hard not to have sarcasm towards this matter and especially at FeeBay.

It's like a preasure cooker with a stuck steam valve, she's gonna blow! HEHE Razz
Quote, "I had such a good dream. Auctiva opened an auction site and I was so good to go. I just felt like I won the lottery being in the right place again at the right time."
For a moment... and just a moment, I was lifted into that dream myself as I have been trying to figure out and alternative to Ebay, where I might actually make a little money. Then reality breaks into that dream. And in that reality, I saw a company like Auctiva, that has a huge customer base at present, open their new auction site. I saw a large number of disgruntled Ebay sellers move their alegiance to Auctiva's new site and for a brief while it all seemed wonderful. Auctiva made money... the sellers made money... the buyers saved money. But it was no time at all before the huge monopoly realizes that Auctiva is a serious player, as well as a serious threat to their bottom line. They give Auctiva a couple of years to prove that they are a viable investment. Eventually, they offer an enormous amount of money to get the player out of the game, buy our wonderful Auctiva Auction Site and we all find our ads back on Ebay where we came from in the first place. And the Auctiva founder??? Living extremely well of an amazing idea.
How many times have you left an expensive service provider for a less expensive one, only to be back with the first company after a hostile take over. Been there and done that too many times already.
But it was an awesome dream!
The only loophole I can think of for us sellers regarding the new restricted feedback is to fight fire with fire! Why not use the restricted feedback space to form a negative, if necessary?...Clearly state in the feedback space..THIS IS A NEGATIVE FEEDBACK and list the reason.
quote:
Originally posted by Dsouth:

Why not charge the buyer a 5% buyers premium or something like that and leave the seller alone for once!


That is the best bit of common sense I have read here for ages. If you go to any auction (inside bricks and mortar in the UK) there is always a buyers and sellers fees.

But, on the other hand, if getsuckedry@ebay starts charging the buyer everyone will be fleeced
quote:
eBay will not start charging the buyers, otherwise there will be no buyers.

Greedbay has a more effective way, fleece the sellers to death, choice of items becomes lower, buyer competition becomes fiercer until they realise they can get their items cheaper elsewhere. Buyers want hassle free bargains.
quote:
Originally posted by ChooChooGuy:
choice of items becomes lower, buyer competition becomes fiercer until they realise they can get their items cheaper elsewhere. Buyers want hassle free bargains.


Might be nicer to have a little less competition. I remember in the "old days", yessir, when you found something unique at a garage sale, you were most likely the only one who had that item listed. You sold it for a lot. Today, nothing is unique. It's amazing. Find the most unique item you can think of, and there are ten of them listed, with twenty closed in the past 10 days (with maybe 1 or 2 sold).
I've been selling on Ebay for 2 years straight and have been a powerseller most of this time.

Who is Ebay holding hands with????

The .99 listing sellers. This new price increase hurts honest sellers. Ebay has a rule where you can't post a listing for .99 and charge $30.00 to even $100.00 shipping charges, BUT there are plenty of sellers doing this. In fact, when Ebay changed how to become a powerseller really helped these people out to becoming a powerseller (number of items sold). Now, with the free gallery coming will save them even more money. However, I think they have to list for a $1.00 now, but pay a couple of pennies more (they don't care...still a savings). The final value fee for these sellers stays the same because it's still in the shipping charges. Yeah, they will lose their powerseller status, but honestly, they don't care. Ebay really needs to hit these sellers where it hurts, but they haven't yet. It makes ya think....is this the way to go? I have a hard time thinking about going this route, but it does make you think. I mean we are here for the same thing...save our buyers money and make money ourselves. My main selling item is cafe saloon doors and I pay a lot of Ebay and PayPal fees each month as it is now. Thank-you!
quote:
Originally posted by JeffS:

Might be nicer to have a little less competition. I remember in the "old days", yessir, when you found something unique at a garage sale, you were most likely the only one who had that item listed. You sold it for a lot. Today, nothing is unique. It's amazing. Find the most unique item you can think of, and there are ten of them listed, with twenty closed in the past 10 days (with maybe 1 or 2 sold).

Yes, I remember those days, I started selling on Ebay in 2001. I sold some amazing cool stuff and made more money on each item back then. Now I don't bother with the kind of stuff I used to sell because as Jeff says, "Nothing is unique." I am lucky that I found a niche that is profitable and interesting to me because it would not be worth it otherwise.
quote:
Why not charge the buyer a 5% buyers premium or something like that and leave the seller alone for once!



Simple. As soon as you start charging buyers, there won't be any buyers.

My sarcastic remarks aren't necessarily directed towards you, they are just sarcasm.

Why not charge the buyer a 5% buyers premium or something like that and leave the seller alone for once!



Simple. As soon as you start charging buyers, there won't be any buyers.

My sarcastic remarks aren't necessarily directed towards you, they are just sarcasm.

- That part is very true. Buyers shouldn't have to pay to get on ebay but I think they should be required to follow more strict registration guidelines so they aren't able to dump accounts and scam sellers and avoid payments. If you've been suspended for your actions as seller, it's next to impossible to get on again short of changing all your info. If you are a buyer, you can register over and over. That is just so wrong.
quote:
Today, nothing is unique.


Well, I've got two (2) Franklin Library Editors' Notes storage boxes up for auction at the moment. I've been watching since January and saw none, except bundled in Antiquarian set/book sales.

I'm looking for nitches for new items for the collector markets, so experimentation is always fun. It's the response to something different that makes it worth the effort. Smile

As for eBay, the major shifts in their business model are (IMO) leaving open a large door for entry of competition, including a GOOGLE. A back-to-basics, true auction of collectibles service is needed. Buy-It-Now doesn't belong on the Auction floor, nor does Retail sales. Those items would be better sold in "off-floor" eStores or eMalls to value-add the auction service with merchandise from the same Seller. I also do not believe an AUCTION TRANSACTION is completed until the item is conveyed to BUYER for acceptance, i.e. right of inspection for authenticity and quality (meets description). That's why (despite eBay's backward opinion) I leave feedback after transaction completion (and no GRIFF, I'm not an A2 Seller or any other CATEGORY you wish to place me in, as categorizing people in the method chosen is insulting). Somewhere along the line, the independence of the 3rd party auctioneer to monitor contract compliance and the concept of auction contract has been lost to the "we accept no responsibility and this is a Retail environment where buyer is always right". PayPal being the real revenue engine driving profits may in fact be part of the problem.

In truth, I'm more concerned the eBay business model is not matching my future path, and seems to be deviating more with each new policy and fee change. If they want to be another Amazon, then I need a "new, old eBay".

Danno

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