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Originally posted by mckenziesgold1:
I started this thread several weeks ago out of frustration with PayPal's unreasonable policies on lots of things. I have watched the comments following. Some nay-sayers try to insinuate we do not want to pay any fees. That is ludicrous!! Of course we know we have to pay for a service to accept credit cards for us for Auctions. We just want REASONABLE fees, timely deposits into our bank accounts and some other friendly competition between legitimate Credit Card On-Line Companies with PayPal. I'm tired of accepting, as someone else put it, "THAT PAYPAL IS JUDGE, JURY AND CAN DO ANYTHING THEY WANT WITH OUR MONEY!!" For instance I'm tired of them holding e-checks from customers for up to 5-6 business days "routinely". Then when it finally gets credited to my PayPal account and I transfer money into my bank account it takes another 3-4 business days. What's up with that???!!! It takes forever to get our money from PAYPAL deposited into our bank accounts??!!!! That was one of the main reasons I did not take personal checks or money orders. Now, I've changed my mind on that. It's almost faster to accept personal checks and money orders and you do not have to pay outrageous PayPal fees on top of Ebay listing fees and Ebay Final Value Sales commission fees. The exorbitant "fees" are eating my profit big time!!

I'm tired of their monopoly and cornering this market with Ebay at their helm. Surely some big companies are going to recognize a great opportunity to take these giants on!!
This is what you do, you get the PayPal Debit Card, Go to your back and ask for a Cash advance of 500.00 (the daily limit), you then deposit that into your back account. No waiting at all and the best part ... PayPal will Pay you a extra 5 bucks for doing that, so if your a big powerseller and can do this 5 x's a week that is $25.00 in your pocket a week or $100.00 a month which will help pay for some of the fustrations Ebay/PayPal cause us. Smile
This is what you do, you get the PayPal Debit Card, Go to your back and ask for a Cash advance of 500.00 (the daily limit), you then deposit that into your back account. No waiting at all and the best part ... PayPal will Pay you a extra 5 bucks for doing that, so if your a big powerseller and can do this 5 x's a week that is $25.00 in your pocket a week or $100.00 a month which will help pay for some of the fustrations Ebay/PayPal cause us.

quess I don't understand this..How can you get a cash advance from a Debit card unless you had the $500.00 in there and then it is not a cash advance it is your own money you are taking..maybe I am just not understanding...
This is what you do, you get the PayPal Debit Card, Go to your back and ask for a Cash advance of 500.00 (the daily limit), you then deposit that into your back account. No waiting at all and the best part ... PayPal will Pay you a extra 5 bucks for doing that, so if your a big powerseller and can do this 5 x's a week that is $25.00 in your pocket a week or $100.00 a month which will help pay for some of the fustrations Ebay/PayPal cause us.


I believe you're mistaken there. I use paypal's debit card all the time and do receive 1.5% cashback on purchases but I don't get that on cash withdrawals.

I'd also like to get fee free payments but I realize that's not going to happen so I price my goods with fees in mind.
Okay, let me make it more clear, srry. Smile

The Paypal debit card is Yes a debit card, but when you use it at a POS you have the option of using it as a debit OR a credit card. As far as the $$$ coming right out of your paypal account there is no difference, however if you use it as a credit card ..YOU will recieve 1% back. This is NOT your money, this is money PayPal is paying you to use YOUR PayPal card as a credit card.

Example, you go out to dinner bill comes to 35.00, you give them your paypal debit card, (Most places will ask if it is debit or credit and if they don't Tell them credit)

Uses PayPal card as a Debit card
Bill 35.00
deduction from Paypal acct 35.00

Uses PayPal card as a Credit Card
Bill 35.00
Deduction from PayPal acct. 35.00
BONUS from PayPal +.35cents

Okay 35 cents isn't much but if you use your card as a credit card everywhere it adds up fast. This is FREE money from PayPal.

Cash Withdraw vs Cash Advance

Cash Withdraw, you can do at any POS or ATM as a debit card, you will NOT receive the 1% back.

Cash Advance, You can only do at YOUR bank I think. You have to take the card to the desk and tell the teller you want a CASH ADVANCE, not a withdraw.

To know the difference,

If you use your PIN# with your card then your using it as a debit card and will not recieve the 1% back on any purchases.

To use as a Credit Card you do NOT use your PIN# and always have to sign a reciept.

Hope that is clearer, Smile
I get 1.5% on my paypal card ourchases, are you only getting 1%?

Anyway, if I sold that much I wouldn't have time to make 5 trips to the bank to collect $5.

We've gotten off topic here, Paypal and Ebay does have a monoply on their site, I can't blame them, I would want the same thing if it were my company. If you want to sell in any venue fees are going to be part of it. You must price your goods accordingly.
Fees are going to be charged no matter who you choose to use as a payment service for auctions. I believe the key word in all of this is "SERVICE". Paypal honoring their own policies would be another issue that I have personally dealt with.
I got an email from them, was asked to enter a shipping number for the return of an item to the Seller while in my Paypal account. I called Paypal, the girl got snotty with me while on the phone when I told her it's not possible. So I had her walk me through ENTERING the shipping number. After finding out for herself it can't be done, all the hoops(re: faxes, phone calls and numerous emails) I'd jumped through for them were finished, I won the dispute, and they still said to CONTACT THE SELLER MYSELF FOR MY REFUND..If you win a dispute, it's a Buyer Protection auction, Paypal needs to reimburse the winning party. If my bank messes up, they make it good, not tell me to take care of it myself! Paypal also needs to spend more time PROPERLY investigating disputes rather than being rude, and taking the easy way out for them. This goes right back to SERVICE and fees charged for providing a service. Maybe they should spend some of that money training their people better because they don't even know what you can or can't do in your PAYPAL account!
Again, we are not trying to get away from PayPal because of fees! I am perfectly fine with paying a fee to process my transaction.

Plain and simple, PayPal sucks! They can freeze your account at any givin time and place a hold on all of your funds with no hope of ever getting the account reinstated. They are not governed by federal banking laws and are not fdic insured. Your personal bank account, by law, can not freeze your account and place a hold on your money and release it when they damn well please.

And PayPal's customer service is not service. They will tell you what you want to hear and that's it. Bottom line, end of story, and we live happily ever after without PayPal.

Get your own merchant account! You will not regret leaving PayPal! EVER!

And for all of the sellers that think that PayPal is sooo great, wait until you have problems. Problems that PayPal can fix in 2 minutes but takes 2 months. Wait until your account is frozen with any sum of money in there and you can't even touch it until PayPal gets off of their lazy so called customer service asses and and actually does something. Best of all, your not even guaranteed to get your account reinstated. PayPal is not governed. They don't have to give you your money!
Hey guyz/galz! I just saw this thread and had to put in my 2 cents. LOL!

I am a long time E-Bay veteran. I had my E-Bay account with all my positive feedback closed about a year or 2 ago due to a non-ebay related problem. I had a buyer for my business ask for a refund after all the work I did on contract for him was completed, his reason was he changed his mind. He filed a dispute with PayPal, he won, my account went negative and I refused to pay the balance. PayPal account was closed as well as my E-Bay account altho the work I was doing wasn't on E-Bay. LOL!

Well now I have an E-Bay account again and had the same problem you all are having. WHO can I use for payments other than PayPal!?!?!?!?!? Simple, 2Checkout.Com! I have not used 2Checkout.Com for auctions yet, but will be starting to today. I have used them for both of my businesses and have also been on the buyer side and paid using them. Safe & Secure and both as a buyer and seller with them I have NEVER ONCE had a problem as long as you follow their rules. There is a $49 setup fee and there are fee's but the fee's and setup fee are worth the "PEACE OF MIND" I have had with them in the past.

In terms of auctions, I just did a "DESCRIPTION SEARCH" on E-Bay for sellers using them and there are quite a few plus there are no restrictions with 2CO about using them for auctions really as long as what you're selling is within their rules. So in short, I will be using them not only because they're SECURE and I have never had a problem with them but also because they are widely known. A good 50%+ of the items I buy online from small businesses use 2CO and they've been around for awhile.

I hope this post helps some. I would also like to see what anyone else thinks about 2CO if you have used them before and any of you that have had problems with them.
Ok here's how it goes as far as I know.

Restricted on EBay;
*Western Union
*A few other Online Payment Options

Allowed on EBay;
*Check / Money Order
*2 Checkout
*C.O.D. (Cash on Delivery)
*Merchant Accounts
*"Bank Electronic Payments"

Basically PayPal isn't required but preferred. And if you look around a bit on E-Bay at the completed listings, you will notice that more people are willing to bid/bin on an item if the payment method is a more trusted & known company like PayPal and 2Checkout (altho PayPal shouldn't be trusted more. LOL!).

As far as using 2CO for auctions, it's not as user friendly as PayPal in terms of "Auction Payment" but IMO it's just as secure as PayPal. You will notice on alot of the Auctions that offer 2CO there will be a little form at the bottom of the auction for the winning bidder to insert the "Total Price" to pay. This little form is actually inserted into the auction listing by the seller. Complicated? Nah... Once you get the first one done then it's very simple to cut and paste -OR- do what I do and make a template you use for every auction you list with that little form on the template.

One nice thing about 2CO is that you can customize this form. I have seen where people have you enter the auction number, price, and shipping. Others just the total price. And if you're not scared of a little web design for your auctions, you can make it look really nice and professional.

I gotta say that personally when I am buying off E-Bay, if the seller offers payment threw something other than 2CO, PayPal, or a Merchant Account I, I tend to shy away from that auction not knowing how safe my money will be handled when paying along with any other information I might give to that payment processor.

BTW: I got the above ALLOWED/RESTRICTED list of items directly off of E-Bay but had to do a little digging to find it. Wink
BTW: I got the above ALLOWED/RESTRICTED list of items directly off of E-Bay but had to do a little digging to find it

Ya I went and looked and couldn't find, knew it was there somewhere but since they re-did the site menu I can't find anything.

I did a search for c2o checkout and only saw one seller that is actually in the states using it, the rest are international sellers, selling on the US site.
I looked into ProPay a bit and they seem like a good option. $60 yearly fee to be able to accept AMEX/DISC cards with a monthly limit of $3,000 in transactions a month up to $500 per transaction. I'm kinda hesitant because of the other fees like $15.00 per chargeback, $10.00 per returned check, $10.00 per investigation, etc...

If you get some bad customers in a month it could end up costing the seller. As stated in a previous post, there are some people that think they can purchase an item and issue a chargeback thinking they'll get the product for free.

But I might opt to go for ProPay and 2Checkout together. Better to offer 2 payment options than one I guess. Wink
Well I have opted to offer 2CO and PayPal both together just to see if anyone opts to use 2CO. Here are my auctions I got up so far so you can see how I did the 2CO area at the top.

Those are my auctions I got up right now. I used my own design with auctiva templates.
Well, here's an update for you all. I stuck with PayPal and then they stuck it to me in a way. My account was Hijacked. Not PayPals fault but they should really require a credit card number or some sort of verification (like 2Checkout.Com does) other than just an e-mail and password. My entire PayPal account was cleaned out and because the guy spent more than what I had, it was automatically taken from my bank account. Now I have to wait for PayPal to do their investigation and make a "ruleing" on it. I contacted the company GoDaddy.Com (where the hijacker spent my money) and they are going to have their investigation done within 48 hours and hopefully a refund. Once this is dealt with, I'm closing my PayPal account and never using them again.

And if you're wondering how my account was Hijacked, it was threw an e-mail. I got a fake paypal e-mail and I usually just toss them. Little did I know that when I opened this one up it installed a keylogger on my computer that Ad-Aware and Norton Anti-Virus didn't catch. Just thought i'd let you all know... Frown
After reading this thread. I just want to remind everyone that DO NOT keep any money in your Paypal account. Withdraw them all frequently and let lousy buyers deal with an empty Paypal account. Also, if a buyer did a charge back on you, please make sure state that in your feedback. I will never sell anything to a customer who files a chargeback.
I started this thread and am pleased with all the out-pouring of responses. 80% or more have agreed that PayPal and Ebay abuse their powerful monopoly. Years ago at Christmas, when I was really inexperienced with this duo, I sold an expensive necklace to an international customer. Really seemed legite and they paid through PayPal. I was trying to get all my Christmas items shipped before leaving town, so I shipped this item within 72 hours of payment. While I was away, PayPal did a chargeback on my account due to stolen credit card. Mind you they waited 5 days before they notified me "not" to ship the item and it was Christmas time. I did withdraw my PayPal balance before I left on my trip and it had a zero balance. However, my account was negative when I returned and everyone who purchased from me while I was gone and paid with PayPal merely went to my negative balance... I could not withdraw my earnings after that chargeback. When I returned, I contacted the Postal Svc and filed the paperwork to stop delivery of my item due to stolen credit card. They tried, but somehow after this, they cannot verify what happened or who actually signed for the item.

I was furious. PayPal should have eaten that mistake and they did not.

I argued with PayPal when I got back, argued with Ebay as well. Did not win. I closed my PayPal account with a negative balance.

They locked me out due to a negative balance and would not let me retrieve my credit card info or my banking acct info. PayPal withdrew the negative balance from my checking acct. I notifed my bank I did not authorize that withdrawal and they reversed it on PayPal. My one victory.

My daughter opened me another PayPal account and I continued to do business with different banking info and moved on. You can win sometimes with PayPal if you play with the same rules they do... Sad an honest seller has to go to those lengths to stay solvent, but you do what you have to do.

I have had one chargeback since and never got my merchandise back and PayPal still gave the buyer a refund eventually and put me into a $500 negative balance. Thinking about closing that account with PayPal as well, but I cannot get my banking and checking info back. In my experience, they always rule for the buyer... I know that is not always the case for everyone, but I have dealt with some buyers who will lie or whatever to get their money back... and it works with PayPal 99% of the time. Although I do sympathize with honest buyers who deal with dishonest Sellers. In my experience of over 1000 transactions as buyer and seller, Buyers have the advantage.

I am just not a big PayPal fan, but they are the only game in town with Ebay... so use them and pray you don't get screwed too many times.
Paypal screwed me about a week ago closed my account and froze the money that is in there almost 500.00 after a buyer complained that what I sold them was illegal in Canada. Of course paypal sides with the buyer and a few days later i receive this email:

"The PayPal User Agreement states that PayPal, at its sole discretion,
reserves the right to close an account for any violation of the User
Agreement, including the Acceptable Use Policy.
We are hereby notifying you that, after a recent review of your account
activity, it has been determined that you are in violation of PayPal's
Acceptable Use Policy. Therefore, your account has been closed.

If you have any questions, please contact the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
Department at

PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department
PayPal, an eBay Company"

I tried to get my money and was informed that they can hold it up to 180 days because I violated their policy.

If you are smart you will get out while you can. I hear Google is coming out with a payment system to take on paypal's monopoly, we can only hope. But ebay probably won't allow it.

here is a link for some banners that are ebay friendly that you can insert in your auctions from the paypal sucks website

no paypal accepted logos
If Paypal keeps it up, they will eventually step on someone's toes that has the BUCKS to do something about it.. Or even better, the Feds will get sick of complaints, open a dummy acct. with Paypal, have someone file a dispute that is bull, and go from there. This can't go on forever. Paypal/Ebay aren't above the law no matter what their "POLICIES" are even though right now they feel very powerful. Wonder how much they pay their lawyers versus abiding by banking laws?
I do want to say one more time as it's gotten lost in the many responses to the PAYPAL being unprofessional issues,,,,,,,,,, Buyers get stung sometimes also. In particular, myself for a sink shipped clearly damaged BEFORE shipping. She had others she sold in the same condition. Packing was none except a garbage bag and box, but no damage inside or out of the box,,, many cracks in the hard surface sink though. When I emailed the Seller, she told me to take it up with the shipping company.. We all know that the person shipping the item has to TAKE IT UP WITH UPS OR DHL.. We, the Buyer, have no rights in that area and pray for an honest Seller to follow through. She collected insurance back from DHL, told me to take a flying leap, and was keeping my money too. I battled PAYPAL for 4 months doing everything they asked. In the end, I won the dispute because the Seller had the sink back(proven), money from DHL(proven), and refused to pay me(also proven via her emails). PAYPAL told me to email the Seller and ask for my money. WHAT A BUNCH OF IDIOTS. What did they think I filed the dispute for? I did ask her for my money. I went to Ebay then and told them that BUYER PROTECTION doesn't mean if Paypal can get your money back from the other party, and stuffed their own policy verbage down their throat. Is it insurance or just a trick to make people feel secure? Paypal coughed up, but not happily. Next thing I knew, my auctions were cancelled for stating I don't take credit cards via PAYPAL.. Hmmmm, possible retaliation?
Again, bottom line, paypal (not worthy of capitalization) sux.
Our only option is a pricey merchant account. And in the end can end up losing you a lot of money. I've began to just accept checks and money orders. It takes longer for an item to sell, if it sells, but I offer a lower price than others on eBay with the same item. That is about the only advantage I have against the sellers that accept paypal. Some people are willing to save that extra buck and send a check. But others are impatient and dont want to take the time to mail a check.
Oh well, I'm about through with selling on ebay. It's getting to be too much of a hassle. It used to be fun tho!
I agree with Daes_Venge. Ebay has always been a hobby for me. It was so much more fun before. With all the rules and high fees these days, plus many many fewer bids compared to the old days, Ebay is just not much fun any more. I used to looking forward to posting a thing or two. I even used to miss posting on Ebay if I did not. Now I just lay back and do one or two whenever I feel like to. I find there are more and more days than I have no listings at all. If this is the general trend, it's not good news for Ebay investors.
Sounds like a lot of us that started way back when Ebay appreciated our business. It was fun to post a few auctions and exciting to see what some of our "stuff" went for.. It didn't matter if you were a Power Seller, and PAYPAL WAS "FREE" so they didn't FREEZE accounts, and make themselves judge and jury. Of course they "INVESTIGATE" before making rulings, NOT. I've met many great people on Ebay that I still keep in touch with via email. It's a shame that many things have gotten so ugly.
PayPal sucks. Especially when I get my listings on Ebay removed because I am selling things for 99p and make a statement that asks buyers who wish to pay via PayPal to also pay their charges of 3.4% plus 20p. I mean there is little profit from 99p to start with, especially after I have paid 15p to make the listing and charge an honest postage.
Seems I'm not alowed to do that for some reason.
Next I reckon Ebay will want me to pay for the buyers stamps if they send me a cheque through the post. Reckon they'll be selling stamps next. Wonder if they have thought about buying the post office so they can screw us there as well?
Don't worry about Ebay/Paypal buying the Post Office to assist in higher fees, the Post Office has had several rate hikes in the past 2 years so they are quite capable of doing their own screwing of us. SMILE.. I know how it feels to have auctions cancelled because of setting my terms of payment. Ebay says they are simply a third party entity, but when they tell you how to received payment for goods I think not.
I have paid my dues with "Pay(more)Pal" , and signed up with AuctionCheckout. Its a Very Very detailed application, questions like "were you breast fed as a baby" ... they do dig deep.

Pay(more)Pal has takin me to the cleaners with chargeback, resticted limits, holding funds, which they are holding 600 now and a reversal of 400 in the last week... so its time to let someone else take my fees for accepting CC's

I luv the post though and hope it continues


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