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Hi, does anyone have any safe alternatives to internet payment services for Auctions. PayPal is a rip off. Between Ebay's continually rising fees and their acquisition of PayPal to monopolize payment options, this conglomerate is killing the small businesses bottom line.

Does anyone have any safe alternatives besides money orders and personal checks for payments for Sellers.

Thanks for any help... Fran
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It's not that there aren't alternatives..there are. And some pretty darn good ones to boot.

What the problem is...
EBAY won't allow those other payment methods to be used.

I was majorly ticked when we the sellers were told we couldn't accept cash any longer. Because I did a whole lotta business receiving cash. Now it's not allowed in our auctions or <poof> will go the auction.

Good luck Fran and if you find any updates, be sure to let me know.

Peace, Donna

Hello mckenziesgold1,

Recently we became aware that your eBay registered account was involved in the
following activity:

Advertising merchandise, auctions, services or commercial Web sites, including offers to
trade, "wanted" posts, or charitable solicitations.

which is not permitted at eBay.

This is a copy of your post:

PayPal needs some competion? Would you like to keep more of your profit?
mckenziesgold1 (920 ) View Listings | Report Mar-14-06 06:23 PST

I started with Ebay 03-2000. It was great. They had BillPoint that collected
your auction money and deposited it in 24 hours!!! Fabulous! Now, I am so fed
up with EBay's acquisition of PayPal and it taking 3-4 business days to get
your money or longer and it's a MONOPOLY!!
The escalating EBAY and PayPal fees are cutting into my bottom line and
making it more and more difficult to make any real profit. This monopoly
needs to be broken up.
Someone suggested Greenzap and I will definitely be applying for as an alternative payment svc. Are there any other safe
reputable buyer credit card internet payment alternatives we can offer to
Buyers? Money orders and personal checks are good, but not real convenient
for our Buyers and it takes longer for us to get our money?
Paypal and Ebay's plan to take so much of our profits is getting worse with
each passing year. We need to stand up and say enough!
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This may be a taboo subject
for the majority of you, but small businesses are hurting and no one cares

We realize that you may not have been aware there was a rule against this activity.
Therefore, we would like to take this opportunity to invite you to review our site policies,
which can be found at:

Please understand our goal is to help you understand our policies to ensure successful
experiences at eBay. Therefore, we respectfully request that you refrain from this activity
in the future to avoid the possibility of a suspension of your eBay registration.

Thank you for your cooperation in this important matter.

eBay Moderation Team
I can NOT believe that!

I used to visit the Powersellers Board with eBay..when that stopped being a learning experience, I wouldn't visit it. Now the eBay Stores Board is going the same route, too.

The pinks only come around when it's convenient or they feel the need to clean up a mess. My understanding is that there was a racist comment made on the eBay Stores board. C'mon...that's just not right.

I feel for ya.

Come visit us over at this thread
and put in your two cents.

Take care, Donna
Last edited by suthrnjewl
Originally posted by Nancy Karol:
I got my auctions terminated because I advertised I don't accept credit cards.. PAYPAL/EBAY is really no better than MICROSOFT.. "either use our stuff or you can't play here"..

You have GOT to be kidding?
There are plenty of sellers who don't accept credit card payments via Paypal. What was eBay's beef? Was it that you were still showing the logo for Paypal and not accepting credit cards?

Nit pickin that's all it is...and it's a shame your auctions were terminated.

Come visit us over at the eBay Talk's interesting and you'd be a great addition, too!

Take care, Donna
No I'm not kidding..I know some others who's auctions were cancelled also, and no, one auction did not have the PAYPAL LOGOS..You just can't accept PAYPAL and set your own terms according to EBAY! I went into my PAYPAL account and guess what? My settings were changed, and yes my account did accept credit cards. Hmmmmm wonder how that happened? The following is the notice I received.

We appreciate that you chose eBay to list the following listing(s):

7225315903 - 2 Large Washington ELK ivory teeth jewelry
7599552124 - 2 drills RYOBI and BLACK DECKER 7.2V

However, your listing was in violation of eBay's Paypal Payments policy and has
been removed from eBay. We have credited all associated fees to your account
and notified eBay users associated with the transaction that it has been

We would like to take this opportunity to let you know what part of your
listing is not permitted.

Your listing(s) contains the following information:


PLEASE note that my PayPal account is NOT set up to receive credit card payments
(existing PayPal balance, e-check, or funds from your linked bank account are
perfectly acceptable).
I am so steamed! The seller can never win in a dispute with a buyer through PayPal either. I just sold a diamond and gold watch $420 that our watchmaker checked thoroughly before shipment. and it was working The girl e-mailed us and said it didn't work and she wanted a refund or she was going to ruin our 100% feedback rating!!

Afraid she would stomp on the watch, we told her we would refund when we got the watch back safely. She threw it in a box, no wrapping or protection and shipped it back to us 10 days later. We checked the watch out and luckily it was still working and we told her we were returning the working watch and there would be no refund. She said she would refuse it!!!

Then she filed a dispute with PayPal. They refunded her money ASAP and put my PayPal acct into -$200 negative status.. Now PayPal is harassing me to pay them the money back. Ebay & Paypl won't allow me to post any auctios. They froze my account. I've got 920 positive feedback from unique customers and nobody at PayPal or Ebay cares that I'm a six year customer with a perfect rating until now!! The witch left me negative feedback. OOOHH I'm steamed!!! This PayPal-Ebay monopoly is getting on my last nerve!!
Unfortunately Buyers get stung by PAYPAL and EBAY also. A Seller shipped me a sink that was damaged..(there was no damage inside or outside the box when it arrived). I emailed the Seller telling her the sink had large cracks in several places..then I bugged DHL to come and get it. To make a long story short, she had no intentions of refunding my money, collected money for damages from DHL(DHL told me the amount she was refunded) and she also got the sink back. After ruling on my behalf two months later, PAYPAL and EBAY told me to email the Seller and ask her to refund my money. WHY did they think I filed a dispute? The Seller already told me where to go and said she'd have the LAST LAUGH.. After faxes, phone calls and tons of emails.. Paypal finally got off their duffs and refunded my money. The Seller socked me with Negative feedback also, called me names, and then made her feedback PRIVATE. She needed to because I wasn't the only one she cheated. The bottom line is that PAYPAL nor EBAY really investigate disputes. They do what is easier for them, NOTHING while making our lives miserable and taking our money! I started with Ebay 7 yrs ago and with PAYPAL when they were "FREE". FREE IS ANOTHER BIG JOKE!
Hi, I am so sorry what happened to you with your sick. I totally understand there are some questionable Ebay Sellers that give the rest of us a bad name. It is on both sides. But, I had 100% feedback and have sincerely, I have a written statement from an experienced credentialed watchmaker that the watch worked when shipped and was working when I rec'd back thankfully. The buyer simply changed her mind and played dirty to get her money back. I now have 99.9% feedback, one negative and she has four negative feedbacks.

But, I know the law of averages finally caught up with me, but I hope the next seller she tangles with gets the ruling against this buyer. Thanks for your time to give me your input. Good Luck. Fran
The feedback issue just kills me. I got 3 negatives years ago from NON PAYING BIDDERS. I pretty much quit giving negatives because they sock you back when they didn't even consumate the auction by paying. A HUGE EBAY GLITCH that I have questioned them about many times. If a person doesn't pay, why do they have the opportunity to leave feedback? This time I knew when I gave her negative that she would sock me because she told me she was having fun cheating me.. I felt the responsibility to others to do it. It hurts to get negatives when you have done all that you are supposed to do. I sell and buy on Ebay and have met some wonderful people doing so, but then it only takes one miserable stinker to get to you! I hope you get some justice with this person because it eases the pain of seeing that feedback and getting upset all over. I CERTAINLY GET UPSET everytime I read that witches again..
Thanks for your story - witch is exactly what I was dealing with. Yes I feel like I did everything correct and ethical and she played dirty by giving me negative feedback. I had no choice but to give negatgive back. I got the dirty end of the stick and that's just the way it goes sometimes.

You are absolutely right about non-payers. I never give negative feedback to them either... it bites you and the system is seriously flawed in that regard.

I'm just going to move on. It is sad that we do meet hundreds of nice people and then, that law of averages kicks in and you get that nasty person that makes you cringe for a while... It just got me because it was such an expensive item and she could have run over it with her car before she returned it if I didn't play along with her blackmail game. I'm lucky I got it back in one piece.

It's great to have this platform to vent and other Auctiva people that can offer some understanding. I do appreciate it. Thanks.
Hello again,

Maybe I was in my own little world about the goings on with Ebay and Paypal, and how dreadful their attitudes are regarding FAIR PLAY until it hit me in the face. In the first place, Paypal should be nothing more than a resource to send funds, NOT JUDGE, JURY AND SENTENCING PANEL.. They started out as a free resource to pay for auctions, pay bills and send funds. They don't abide by the Federal Banking laws, and it's too costly for one person to sue them. However there are several class actions suits currently in place against them for unfair business practices.
Ebay has been doing some very nasty things to people lately also, or maybe it's that I've been made aware of it. I just got an email from a person(huge power seller) who's had ALL their auctions removed and Ebay won't EXACTLY tell why ONE auction infringed on what they've determined to be NOT ok to sell on Ebay. It was MURINE earwax removal.. This person had page after page of auctions, all of them were removed, no particular reason given, and Ebay doesn't really give a darn about the time and work that this person spent putting those auctions on. WHAT HAPPENED TO CUSTOMER SERVICE? If the attitude that Ebay and Paypal have regarding the people that are making them RICH keeps up, they will go down the tube. Pretty soon it will be known for being a site for crooks and scammers.

When I had my problem getting money back for the sink, Ebay referred me to SQUARE TRADE........ANOTHER $29.95,,, are you kidding me? The auction was PAYPAL PROTECTED, my backside! Paypal doesn't investigate anything, they do what is easy, have people working there that don't even know what they're talking about, and don't care. When I called them, they told me I hadn't responded via my acct. It clearly showed ALL my responses, including faxes re: proof of return of the sink, emails, and phone calls! Then this gal says I needed to enter the return of the sink in my PAYPAL acct. I asked her to walk me through doing that as it couldn't be done.. she got snotty, started with the do this do that bull, and guess what? I was right and she knew it.. the end result however was I NEEDED TO CALL THE SELLER AND ASK HER TO REFUND MY MONEY.. What the heck is PAYPAL PROTECTED? It means NOTHING except FREE advertisement in our auctions for PAYPAL to make more money off our efforts! They don't take care of their customers that's for certain. I finally mentioned the complaint forms I'd gotten from the ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE and would be filing soon. The most amazing thing happened, I got my money.

Yes, it does help to vent. I really enjoy doing this and don't want a few bad issues to keep me from meeting MANY nice people. I'm glad I finally tried Auctiva. Learning a new way was/is confusing at times, but the service is outstanding when there is a problem. Unfortunately I started right about the time they were moving, but stuck with it.
Direct pay - you are lucky. I just had a diamond customer that was going to wire transfer to our bank (think that is the same thing)and he said it was going to cost him $25 US. Don't know if that was due to his particular checking plan he picked or what. But, wire transfer involves giving someone your bank routing numbers and your checking acct numbers... I don't know why, but giving that info to total strangers, makes me uncomfortable.

PayPal is Ebay. We all know that. They are one in the same so to speak.

When Ebay warned me about posting a request on their message board about other payment options, this is what I wrote them back. I am probably on their black list big time!!

"Are you saying "freedom of speech" is prohibited on Ebay? I just wanted to clarify that and appreciate the warning regarding asking for help in finding other Online Virtual Credit Card companies other than PayPal. I believe I understand your Policy perfectly and will be respectful of your request. Do you prohibit Sellers from advertising and using other internet payment companies in their listings? I want to make sure I understand your Policy on this crystal clearly. Ebay has come a long way from their humble beginnings when I first started back in 2000, and I see why. Still love Ebay anyway. Sincerely, Fran"
My auctions were cancelled for asking Buyers to pay by way of instant bank transfer, no credit cards, and if you have a Premier acct. there are definitely charges big time for us here in the States. Interesting information from you. I had my settings in Paypal so that I didn't accept credit cards, so I thought. I went in to my account and my settings DID accept credit cards, and were no knowing changed by myself. Ebay/Paypal says in their terms that if you use Paypal as a payment method in your auctions, you MUST accept credit cards and can not set terms of payment. Please see Ebay's email to me.
Dear nholsted52,

We appreciate that you chose eBay to list the following listing(s):


However, your listing was in violation of eBay's Paypal Payments policy and has
been removed from eBay. We have credited all associated fees to your account
and notified eBay users associated with the transaction that it has been

We would like to take this opportunity to let you know what part of your
listing is not permitted.

Your listing(s) contains the following information:


PLEASE note that my PayPal account is NOT set up to receive credit card payments
(existing PayPal balance, e-check, or funds from your linked bank account are
perfectly acceptable).

Sellers who offer PayPal as a payment option in the listing process must accept
all forms of PayPal payment, without restriction.

For example, it is *not* permitted to state:

"I only accept cash transfers with PayPal (no credit cards)"
"I only accept payments with PayPal over $15"

Sellers must have a Premier or Business PayPal Account or be willing to upgrade
from a Personal PayPal Account to a Premier or Business Account if sellers
receive a credit card payment. Sellers may not communicate to buyers that they
accept, or will not accept, specific forms of PayPal payment.

Please be aware that you are not required to use PayPal as an accepted form of
payment for your listings. However, we hope that you will realize the
protection and convenience that PayPal offers.
Wow! Loosing freedom of speech by asking a question that would take some pennies away from PAYPAL/EBAY.. I dislike too much government control, but no control over monopolies is also not good. Microsoft was sued for issues similar to this.. Only our licensed software can be used or your computer programs won't work.. Use Paypal with terms they set forth or be terminated from using Ebay.
What a shame that ebay owns paypal. Its horrible what they put us through. Last week eBay decided that my account was not secure, and I needed to change my password on one of my ebay ID's... The next day I get an email for the other ID!!
"FUNNY" thing is that while I do accept paypal, I do not allow their logo on my auctions. The evening following the first tko28 notice that I had to change my password, I mysteriously got an email from PAYPAL telling me that I had to go in and change my password as they couldn't get their logo on my auctions!!! Well... duh paypal...I don't allow them.....Next day after I changed my other ID, I got the same email from paypal!
I think they did this so that they could confuse me into allowing their logo in my auctions.
We have our own site, have for as long as we have been on ebay and only use them for advertising thankfully...don't do much ebay at all.
I agree with all you guys, when I first joined ebay in 1999 it was nice and simple!! Free paypal was great too....but another sneaky scheme to get people to sign up..once they had us all....suddenly they are crying the blues with over 5 million members at the time that they couldn't do business accounts for free anymore. So do we quit using them? NOOO...we are so used to getting the money, we keep using them. We also accept credit cards direct, and I must say the paypal is a bit cheaper, and my merchant account has its own little ways of ripping you off too with sur charges. At least with paypal you know what you are paying. Not defending them, I am totally against monopolies, but they are no worse in the actual charging percentages than any other credit card service.
Ok, all talked out...I wish good luck to you all! Smile
Originally posted by mckenziesgold1:

"Someone suggested Greenzap and I will definitely be applying for as an alternative payment svc. Are there any other safe
reputable buyer credit card internet payment alternatives we can offer to
Buyers?" <snip>

Perhaps that's the true reason behind the warning? Greenzap was revealed some time ago as a scam / pyramid scheme. (which is what led to ebay's banning of greenzap in listings, which in turn led to ebay's new policy about acceptable payment methods.)

So, we can thank damon westmoreland, linda murphy, and the others behind greenzap for ebay's new payment policy Mad
If you're going to play on eBay and accept PayPal you have to agree to their terms of use. What's to understand? Sign up for a merchant account with MC/Visa/Discover etc and see if their terms are better. Accepting credit cards, the CC fees, the possiblity of charge backs, dishonest buyers, careless shippers, etc, etc, is part of having a business Do you operate a business? As for censorship, there's lots of places to bellyache on the Web, including this forum, even when it's OT.
If you're going to play on eBay and accept PayPal you have to agree to their terms of use. That was not a question, it was a statement. Some people, the vast majority that sell on Ebay, are NOT A LICENSED BUSINESS or POWER SELLERS. Some are simply looking for a less expensive alternative to online payment methods for their auctions. That of course would EXCLUDE credit card payments from any resource.
It seems to me, after studying this thread, that some sellers, after exceding their Personal PayPal account volume and being bumped up to a Premier or Business account, still want to use PayPal for free. Thus their request "no credit cards via PayPal" These sellers are operating a business. It might be a small business that doesn't pay much or even operates at a loss, but I simply can't feel sorry for them. When I look on ebay I see LOTS of auctions and big time sellers that still do not accept CCs or PayPal. Checks and MOs still seem to work.
Speaking for myself, I've had a Premier account for a long time. When it was offered I upgraded. Paypal was "free" in the beginning and it didn't make a difference regarding account type back then. My request for no credit cards had nothing to do with fees or account type. It was a matter of "choice" because of a nightmare over a charge back with a nasty person. Some people think they can "keep" your item and doing a charge back is a great way to get it for free. NOT! The avenues to resolve that problem were unpleasant, and tedious. Not something I want to do again! So, to expedite payments, I use Paypal and run the risk of the same thing happening another day because I have no "choice" but to accept credit cards. Yes, I also take money orders, but the key is time. I don't mind fees, I expect them. I mind NO CHOICE.
I think they must have meant right that second. That was back when they shouldn't have to abide by Federal Banking Laws...... they were "free" and only facilitating payments from one party to another.. Now that they are judge, jury, and private investitigators, they need to charge fees to cover those costs, and should consider being regulated by a Power higher than their owners, Ebay. Have to have some humor here!
Well, I am just tired of my money getting locked up because PayPal wants to put my account on limited access. What is their problem. It's my money, I am running a complete legitimate business. How can they just hold my money like that for no reason. They don't even give a reason. I have never had my personal bank lock up my account and reverse all transactions! I lost nearly $700 due to them reversing transactions FOR NO REASON. I need a way out and a better and more reliable way to receive payments fast from my customers. Sure money orders and checks work great, but the time involved is not convenient. It's not the fees everyone wants to get away from. It's PayPal. Bottom line!
I started this thread several weeks ago out of frustration with PayPal's unreasonable policies on lots of things. I have watched the comments following. Some nay-sayers try to insinuate we do not want to pay any fees. That is ludicrous!! Of course we know we have to pay for a service to accept credit cards for us for Auctions. We just want REASONABLE fees, timely deposits into our bank accounts and some other friendly competition between legitimate Credit Card On-Line Companies with PayPal. I'm tired of accepting, as someone else put it, "THAT PAYPAL IS JUDGE, JURY AND CAN DO ANYTHING THEY WANT WITH OUR MONEY!!" For instance I'm tired of them holding e-checks from customers for up to 5-6 business days "routinely". Then when it finally gets credited to my PayPal account and I transfer money into my bank account it takes another 3-4 business days. What's up with that???!!! It takes forever to get our money from PAYPAL deposited into our bank accounts??!!!! That was one of the main reasons I did not take personal checks or money orders. Now, I've changed my mind on that. It's almost faster to accept personal checks and money orders and you do not have to pay outrageous PayPal fees on top of Ebay listing fees and Ebay Final Value Sales commission fees. The exorbitant "fees" are eating my profit big time!!

I'm tired of their monopoly and cornering this market with Ebay at their helm. Surely some big companies are going to recognize a great opportunity to take these giants on!!
I have been seriously looking into ProPay. ProPay is a registered agent of Wells Fargo Bank and Merrick Bank. They are a credit card merchant. Their fees are comparable to PayPal. And the best thing about ProPay is that eBay does not own them. They don't play the judge thing with YOUR money. Sure a chargeback is a possibility but you have the right to fight it yourself, not PayPal. And this buyer/seller protection they offer is a lot of crap. PayPal don't put their money on the line. It's you, the buyer or seller that loses their money, not PayPal.
Well, finally someone else that realizes that the BUYER PROTECTION thing is a lot of HOOEY big time.. A Seller shipped me a cracked sink, I shipped back, she collected fraudulent money from DHL, told me where to go and laughed at me, left me negative feedback, called me a whacko.. blah, blah, blah.. Paypal said my claim was VALID, I had to fax them proof of returning the item, TWICE, numerous emails, and phone calls, and THEN after 3 months they said.."PLEASE CONTACT THE SELLER AGAIN AND ASK FOR A REFUND". I blew.. Buyer Protection my BUTT! Filed a complaint with Ebay against their company,PAYPAL. That was a funny one! I got my money..BUT you're right, Paypal DOES NOT PUT THEIR MONEY ON THE LINE. IF PEOPLE THINK BUYER PROTECTION IS INSURANCE, forget that thought.. Paypal will pay you if they can collect from the other party involved in the dispute..otherwise NOT!
Now there I have to disagree.
A month ago I would've agreed with you wholeheartedly but here's what happened.

I purchased from a buyer in August of last year. No delivery of product, no answers to emails, no answers to contact member, no answers to my phone calls.

I file with Paypal for the protection that's stated on the auction. (that's the ticket if they have the Paypal protection)


Next month.


Every month I would contact Paypal via phone in regards to this, always asking for a supervisor...Nada!

Finally a month ago during one of my monthly phone calls to get this refunded (Yes, I'm like a bulldog once I latch onto something, I don't let go!) the supervisor I spoke to stated she didn't understand why it hadn't been refunded.

She stated that the file was still open. I said..Yes m'am. I'm not closing it until I receive my refund as is guaranteed by Paypal protection. (I had taken a screen shot of the original auction too and had that for my records even though the seller was NARU and the auction was off eBay records to be viewed.)

This particular supervisor promised me in writing that if I closed the case she would send me the refund. I stated, No thank you...I would do that once I had the refund in my account.

Refund was to my account within 4 hours. I closed the open file for dispute and that was the end of it.

I'm kinda embarrassed that it was only for five plus dollars..but it was the principle of the dispute.

It was guaranteed and I wasn't getting any valid reason besides the seller has no money in their account to reimburse you. I kept fighting them with the Paypal purchase protection guarantee and finally after six months (either they were tired of me or they were trying to clean the books up) I got that five plus dollars back!

One battle down!

I understand everything everyone is saying..but unless eBay ALLOWS we the seller to use whatever means we want to use to accept funds..then we are SOL when selling on eBay.

Good Luck,

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