Pet Peeve: When buyers try to force Paypal on me.

Don't want the extra fees. Don't want the risk of having my Paypal account frozen or money being reversed from it due to fraud somewhere else down the line, etc. etc. Paypal 99% of the time sides with the buyer in a dispute, and that will leave the seller on the short end of the stick as far as the money and the item are concerned (if it's already been shipped out).

If someone wants to use their credit card then they can use Bidpay.com to pay me, and THEY can pay the extra fee, not I.

And by the way, where do I go so I can add a picture icon by my name?

click on:

Go -> My Space -> Profile -> View/Edit Complete Profile

then scroll down to the bottom and click on 'Edit' by the Avatar/Picture URL section!

To honestly compete in the marketplace you have to offer Paypal or something like it. I'm sure you're loosing sales. I make international buyers use Bidpay but the rest use PayPal.

I had a buyer file a claim and she said the item was stained. Of course, it wasn't. It was in 'like new' condition. PayPal gave her all of her money back BUT they didn't take it from my account. I thought she had purchased the extra PP insurance or something. The PP rep told me they didn't take out the money from my account because I was such a good customer.

Now, an international buyer that I let pay via PP is doing a chargeback some 6 weeks later. She's claiming she never received her item. In 3 years I have yet to have an item lost in the mail domestically or internationally. That is until this witch entered my life. She is the rudest, bitchiest buyer I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with. Here user ID is Mysearch2.

Block her.

If you don't take Paypal then you are loosing sales. That's just a fact. Personally I think your worries about Paypal are groundless. Yes, these situations have happened to people, but they are the exception, not the norm. I've conducted thousands of sales through Paypal since their inception and I've never had any trouble. The extra fees DO bother me, and it pisses me off that they go to eBay. It bothered me much less when those fees went to a different company who was providing me with a service that was a benefit. Now it's just extra money to a greedy monopolistic bastard, but if you don't use it, you're loosing.

When I buy, I won't deal with someone who does not take Paypal. If I'm going to be inconveinanced, I'll take my business elsewhere.

In all honesty you can still take Paypal WITHOUT fees - but it has to be a personal account and you are maxed out at being able to receive $500 a month plus you need to make sure you do not use the Paypal logo with credit cards.

As far as chargebacks and frozen accounts - unless you do not follow the seller protection plan, you should not have any problems unless someone does a credit card chargeback - same can be done with Bidpay.

I have a Bidpay account set up but to be honest have never had someone pay this way. They always pay by Paypal. I would rather pay the fees to "ebay / Paypal" than putting 3x's that in gas to drive to the bank or even having to wait for snail mail. Just depends on your preferences.

I can understand your frustration though - please don't think I am trying to change your mind - just giving you info.

I sold for 3 years before taking Paypal. I had a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallly beligerent customer that forced my hand. Along with the fact that was when Paypal froze personal accounts to receive any more payments after the allotted $$$ amounts were received for the month.

I added the difference to my auction cost and have never looked back. ALL of my eBay IDs began selling like crazy!!!!

I have very few NPBs now and I have two different Paypal accounts to suit my needs.

I've never bought unless the seller accepted Paypal. (now wasn't that duplicitous? <smile>

Especially with the holidays coming..buyers don't want to have to send checks, money orders and more in the hopes they are received in time. Nor do they want to have a seller hold their merchandise till the payment clears.

Oh I accept Bidpay also...but not much action there in 2 years. Cashola, money orders and personal checks come in the mail..but they only make up about very little of my sales.

Just my two cents,
Donna

Seeing as Ive been a buyer for 4 years or so and just selling for the past month and a half...I know all about paypal.

I try to only buy from someone with paypal. So much quicker and I can usually check my shipment online. Sometimes I go so quick through a listing I actually have to send MO. I did this on Oct 14 and still waiting for my item. Thats why I hate buying without paypal.

Selling...yes I hate the fees but I cover it with my shipping. And you can transfer it to your bank account easily enough. It takes a few days but its only a few buttons to push.

It also helps me manage my selling. I send everything with Deliv Conf and I leave them on there until they have arrived. Then I delete them and add a note on my ebay. It keeps me soo well organized.


My twenty cents

Liss

When eBay merchants talk about Paypal fees, they often forget, the entire fee is not going to Paypal, a larger portion of that fee is going to the credit card company.

I have a brick and mortar store and to be able to accept credit cards in my store, along with every other merchant in my city, I need the equipment and the account. The equipment has to be leased, thats $35 a month. Paypal charges no monthly fee. Then I have to do X amount of sales through the machine as part of the contract or make up the difference in money out of my bank. Paypal has no minimum amount. Then I get charged a fee per transaction. Just the same as Paypal but the machine is 5 cents more. Then I have to pay a percentage of the entire sale. Which is at a slightly lower rate than Paypal.

And thats not the end of it. If a customer does a chargeback, I have no dispute because it matters not what the fine print says, there is the cover their butt clause which means signature or not, they are going to side with the customer so the customer will keep the card and go out and spend more money. After all, its costing them nothing. The money is coming out of my account and I am the one that is out the merchandise.

Paypal does offer Sellers Protection. If you ship within 7 days to the address of record on the transaction details page (if eiligible) and with Delivery Confirmation, a chargeback by the customer will be automatically denied by Paypal. Most of the chargebacks you hear about were from sellers too lazy or too silly not to read the user agreement and use DC. Try taking a credit card in your store over the phone and shipping the item and dispute a chargeback. Credit card company is not even going to take your call.

Given the service Paypal offers for as cheap as it does, I honestly cannot see what eBay sellers have to complain about. They evidentally have never done any real selling in the real world.

I agree with RainbowRuth. When I was little my mother owned her own business. When she started accepting credit cards there were alot of extra costs and fees involved. But it allowed her to make more sales. So even after adding in the extra fees she still made more money because of it.

IMO Paypal is way to convenient not to accept it. I won't buy from anyone that doesn't accept it. Whether the extra money goes to eBay or not it's a good service. I add in the extra eBay fees and Paypal fees to the starting bid price of my items.

quote:

. The equipment has to be leased, thats $35 a month. Paypal charges no monthly fee. Then I have to do X amount of sales through the machine as part of the contract or make up the difference in money out of my bank. Paypal has no minimum amount. Then I get charged a fee per transaction. Just the same as Paypal but the machine is 5 cents more. Then I have to pay a percentage of the entire sale.

Wow... no wonder merchants are so reluctant to accept credit cards, and here I was as a buyer getting pissed off because I have to pay in cash

quote:

In all honesty you can still take Paypal WITHOUT fees - but it has to be a personal account and you are maxed out at being able to receive $500 a month plus you need to make sure you do not use the Paypal logo with credit cards.

Actually ebay changed the rules on this a few weeks ago. If you take paypal on your listing, you MUST take credit cards or your listing will be ended.

And as much as I don't like it as a seller, i love it as a buyer.

I've used Paypal since it was X.com and have only had 1 chargeback about 3 years ago. I get my money faster and I get my winning items faster.

quote:

Selling...yes I hate the fees but I cover it with my shipping.

...And that makes you part of a bigger problem that I hate about eBay. I also don't deal with sellers who I know are inflating their shipping to cover their fees. The fees are a cost of doing business. I won't pay your fees too.

So what you're saying that because I add $1.00 to s/handling you would refuse to do business with me?

Priority Shipping $3.85. My shipping (on my other IDs) for that item is $5.00.

I'm picking your brain...not being beligerent. I don't want to paraphrase and lose the meat of the conversation.

I've not had any gripers so I just wondered why $1.15 would upset someone so much to think I'm sticking it to them.

My best friend is an accountant and she said when I asked her years and years ago..Gosh, Donna..don't you pay the flat fee when you buy from Nike.com or Talbots.com or SouthernLiving.com? Do you question whether they are gauging you or not? She states that it's just a normal business cost and ALL businesses need to add in their time because it's valuable even if it's a business run out of their home.

Input? OK?
Donna

quote:

So what you're saying that because I add $1.00 to s/handling you would refuse to do business with me?

Priority Shipping $3.85. My shipping (on my other IDs) for that item is $5.00.

Yes, I might, depending on the item.

I'm talking about people who completely cover their fees with shipping, like the memory guys who charge $10 to ship something weighing ONE ONCE. Lets get realistic, that could be shipped for 60 cents, or $1.50 to cover the cost of the padded envelope, or $3.85 in a priority mail envelope.

Yes, I charge some handling myself, but I don't come anywhere near covering my fees. For $3.85 flat rate envelopes I charge $4.00. For $7.70 flat rate boxes I charge $8.00. These are round-ups for simplicity sake. 15 and 30 cents covers nothing. On variable rate items I charge anywhere from 25 to 75 cents extra to cover the costs of the materials used to pack. If I need a big box and can't find one used, I might charge a few extra dollars to cover it, as that's a SHIPPING expense. If I have a big box already but it takes tons of packing materials inside, I may charge a few extra dollars. Again, shipping expense.

I DON'T make the excuse that "you need to pay my time, or my gas, or the time I spend on line". That's BS. Bye bye, I'll buy elsewhere.

So, would I not buy from you with a $1 handling charge? I might not. It depends on the item. Charging $1.15 when you have no out of pocket expenses (the mailing envelope is free), no tape, etc, seems a bit much. As for complainers, you probably would not get any. My decisions are silent, what is the point to gripe to you or to the guy charging $10 for the 1 ounce item?

I've been selling since '96 or '97 (I forget) and I've shipped thousands of items of every concievable size, weight, and configuration. I know what it costs in postage, time, materials, and effort. I won't pay somebody elses fees.

Ok. That's all I wanted was clarification.

I just bought a hoodie from a U of Bama site for my son..and paid over 10.00 for shipping. <shrug> I didn't mind. I live in FL and there aren't a whole lot of Bama items here. Even at the specialty stores. Mostly FSU, U of F, Miami, USF and U of Central FL. I didn't even stop to think that the item could ship for around $8.00. <shrug> Big Whoop! I'm sure with the extra $2.00 they are making wild plans for a blow out this weekend. <smile> I'm trying to lighten it up..ok?

I bought an outfit from LandsEnd.com last month..paid $10.00 for shipping. I know for a fact it could've been shipped for cheaper. Did I worry? Nope. It's the cost of a legitemate business working on the internet. There are times I buy from Target when they offer free shipping and even Wal-Mart when they offer free shipping.

Different strokes, different folks.

For the record...I'm not a newbie either..I've been selling since 97 under another ID and 99 and 2000 under 2 other IDs and this ID since 98.

I'm looking to buy a cell phone for my daughter (hers was stolen) the one I have in my watching is 25.00 BUY IT NOW with 60.00 Shipping. <shrug> No biggie to me. It's a good total price and his feedback is decent. What he's guilty of is fee-avoidance but I don't report that..<shrug> It just really doesn't phase me.

And yes, for the record the $5.00 would've been for a Ralph Lauren Tube Dress Long Sleeves. The other persons on eBay were shipping for $8.00. I still sold it.

Man, I wonder how I should spend all of that $1.15 overage. Dinner? Dancing? Diamonds? <smile> I'm joking.

Just pass my auctions on by..that's ok. It's your perogative as a buyer.

Take care, Donna

I'm new to ebay, but my now husband used to sell on ebay and pay pal froze his account with over $1000 in it and it was a whole big mess. He is still trying to sort it out. I won't risk it. Maybe pay pal works for some, but since I saw that happen to my hubby--I just won't. Not to mention that when he emailed them and called them, they gave him horrible customer service; froze payments he had made to sellers along with an email stating that the transaction had been frozen due to possible fraud--which by the way, was never explained. In the meantime the seller's he paid were frantic thinking he had ripped them off, he had to send them all duplicate payments because he had received the merchandise and pay pal would not release the funds to them. I mean, there is a class action against them--I just don't trust online payments

I know of another this happened to...you're not alone.

Bless your heart and your husbands heart.

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

I wish there were something I could do..but there's not but wish you luck.

Take care, Donna

quote:

Man, I wonder how I should spend all of that $1.15 overage. Dinner? Dancing? Diamonds? <smile> I'm joking.

Which is precisely why I said "I'm Silent" about making comments or "griping" about shipping fees.

Because, even though you're joking. You're not.

Ok, everybody covers their ebay fees some way. Nobody is in this to lose money. Either your price is higher than it would have normally been, or you charge a handling fee. I have tried it both ways. I listed the same exact item for $0.99 with a $2 handling fee and for $2.99 with no handling fee. The $0.99 item sold. Nobody even looked at the $2.99 one. Same total price in the end. I have done this numerous times with the same result every time!

quote:

Originally posted by JeffS:

quote:

Man, I wonder how I should spend all of that $1.15 overage. Dinner? Dancing? Diamonds? <smile> I'm joking.

Which is precisely why I said "I'm Silent" about making comments or "griping" about shipping fees.

Because, even though you're joking. You're not.

We'll agree to disagree..ok?
And Yes I was joking..I was trying to lighten the subject up as it appeared you were so staunchly opposed to any kind of shipping cost but exact.

Take care, Donna

quote:

Originally posted by moodymama1024:
Ok, everybody covers their ebay fees some way. Nobody is in this to lose money. Either your price is higher than it would have normally been, or you charge a handling fee. I have tried it both ways. I listed the same exact item for $0.99 with a $2 handling fee and for $2.99 with no handling fee. The $0.99 item sold. Nobody even looked at the $2.99 one. Same total price in the end. I have done this numerous times with the same result every time!

Yep..I have too. My stuff with the lower price always sells better. And that's what I meant about the cell phone with the high shipping. The end price is the same when I do a closed auction search. <shrug>

Take care, Donna

If you pay for items with paypal you should also accept paypal which is only fair. Even if customer uses bidpay they can still chargeback thru their cc so its same risk as paypal. even if you accept paypal many customers will still give you money orders and checks which evens out the paypal fees in the long run.

I don't pay with items for Paypal, vanman. I'm not signed up with them at all.

if a customer does a chargeback with bidpay--bidpay doesn't take your money or freeze your account. i pay for auctions with pay pal--but i will absolutely not accept payment with pay pal. i only pay for items with pay pal because some seller only allow pay pal--Hey, that is their requirement and if i want the item i have to agree and pay with pay pal. Mine is that I don't take pay pal payments.

My husband is still trying to fight pay pal on his issue. in addition to them freezing $1,000 in his pay pal account, they assessed him over $3400 in fees because he would not allow them to take money from his bank account and every time they tried and they couldn't they would charge him. even though he told them that account was closed. further, pay pal sent emails to sellers telling them that funds he paid to them were being held due to potential fraud--well that just created a series of more problems. sellers calling us thratening that we stole their merchandise and were fraud. all this because pay pal withdrew the funds paid to the sellers and froze them. to this day they have not released those funds--almost 2 years and my husband ended up having to either return items or pay for them a second time. Pay pal used very threatening and harming language when they stated to the seller's that the money had been put on hold "due to potential fraud" that just got these sellers up in a frenzy. Even now that I use pay pal to pay for items--it is always with a prepaid debit card--they did it to my husband and they won't do it to me!

I'm glad pay pal works for some--unfortunately, it didn't for him and I will gldadly take that as a lesson learned. I'd rather take my chances on loosing a sale than taking my chances with Pay Pal.

by the way, my husband's bank zeroed out the overdraft pay pal caused but pay pal sent my husband to collections for the $3400 they assessed him in fees--we hired a lawyer to fight it and it is ongoing.

has anyone tried to deal with the inept individuals they have as customer service reps at pay pal? I swear they get these people from the same place they get postal workers (hee! hee! just a lighthearted joke, no offense meant to POSTAL WORKERS.) But seriously, they are idiots and not very helpful.

just do a search for pay pal on the web and you will get lik a 100 sites condeming the service. one in particular: paypalsucks.com

quote:

Originally posted by swimordie:
Seeing as Ive been a buyer for 4 years or so and just selling for the past month and a half...I know all about paypal.

I try to only buy from someone with paypal. So much quicker and I can usually check my shipment online. Sometimes I go so quick through a listing I actually have to send MO. I did this on Oct 14 and still waiting for my item. Thats why I hate buying without paypal.

Selling...yes I hate the fees but I cover it with my shipping. And you can transfer it to your bank account easily enough. It takes a few days but its only a few buttons to push.

It also helps me manage my selling. I send everything with Deliv Conf and I leave them on there until they have arrived. Then I delete them and add a note on my ebay. It keeps me soo well organized.


My twenty cents

Liss

If you don't mind going to the bank, go in and do a 'cash advance' using your PayPal debit card. Then deposit it into your bank account. Besides, getting your money immediately, you will earn 1.5% cash back as well.

Hi! Would you go into more detail on your suggestion for "cash advance" using the Paypal card. Doesn't the bank charge you a fee or interest on the advance??? Thanks. Jean

quote:

Originally posted by moodymama1024:
Ok, everybody covers their ebay fees some way. Nobody is in this to lose money. Either your price is higher than it would have normally been, or you charge a handling fee. I have tried it both ways. I listed the same exact item for $0.99 with a $2 handling fee and for $2.99 with no handling fee. The $0.99 item sold. Nobody even looked at the $2.99 one. Same total price in the end. I have done this numerous times with the same result every time!

I agree. Lower starting prices with higher shipping is best. As long as it isn't over the top. I've sold some things offering free shipping on items I know will ship for $3.85. My cost for the item, eBay fees and the $3.85 shipping come to about $6.00 to $7.00. So, I take a nice dress and offer it for $21.95 or so and make $14.95 on it. They see a low starting price paired with free shipping and it works. I do this with my average items. On my hip stuff I charge full shipping because I know it will sell. Experiment and try a few different things to see what works best for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Jean:
Hi! Would you go into more detail on your suggestion for "cash advance" using the Paypal card. Doesn't the bank charge you a fee or interest on the advance??? Thanks. Jean

I bank at a couple of different banks and neither one charges a fee. Just go into your bank, hand them your PayPal debit card and ask for a cash advance. They'll have you fill out a slip, they'll go process it and then give you the money. While you wait, fill out your deposit slip or just have the bank clerk deposit it for you. Or take it and go on a wild and crazy shopping spree, lol. It's that simple. I hope this helps, give it a try.

quote:

Originally posted by Magie Noire:

quote:

Originally posted by Jean:
Hi! Would you go into more detail on your suggestion for "cash advance" using the Paypal card. Doesn't the bank charge you a fee or interest on the advance??? Thanks. Jean

I bank at a couple of different banks and neither one charges a fee. Just go into your bank, hand them your PayPal debit card and ask for a cash advance. They'll have you fill out a slip, they'll go process it and then give you the money. While you wait, fill out your deposit slip or just have the bank clerk deposit it for you. Or take it and go on a wild and crazy shopping spree, lol. It's that simple. I hope this helps, give it a try.

Dude, way to beat the system. You are my new hero!

My paypal debit card is a wonderful, wonderful tool that I love soooo much. It enables me to keep my spending-vs-selling contained and not have it leak over into my credit cards and leave me wondering if I'm actually making money or not. If I can't pay for it with my PP card, I'm not making enough to buy that specific thing to resell, you know?

I also appreciate paypal for the power it gives to me, both as a buyer and seller. That little 'ship' button that pops up next to my payment info in paypal helps me get things out *immediately* to my buyers. As a buyer, I like that my purchases are protected.

As for fees and such being applied to auctions, here is my feeling - I am in central jersey, I could throw a stone and hit three post offices and three branches of my bank. I live in a safe area where I can leave my to-be-shipped boxes out for the mailman without concern. There are some sellers, however, who live in the boondocks, where banks and POs are not easily accessible - and it is for these that I would not find fault with nominal fees.

However.

Charging for generic packing materials is a bit too ambitious for yours truly. I mean, if you're sending something that legitimately *requires* special packaging, I certainly understand. But as for me, I use free boxes and package with extra sunday papers that I pick up late sunday evening from a nearby gas station - they throw out all the ones that don't sell, so I just come by before they physically throw them out and take them off their hands! If I'm mailing something I'm afraid the newsprint might smudge, or that may leak, I pop it in a ziplock bag. I print out my priority shipping labels right off the paypal/usps system, tape them on the box with clear tape, and get free tracking to boot!

A lot of sellers don't know about the free boxes because they hide the program pretty well, but for those of you uninitiated, here is the link: Free Boxes Right Here!! - They will send you, for *literally* absolutely free, priority mail/ebay branded boxes of various sizes, delivered right to your door. You are allowed to order one set of 25 of EACH size EVERY single day. They look very professional and they're FREE! Yay! The only thing I pay for is clear tape :-D

Happy selling everyone - my sincerest best wishes for all your sale margins this holiday season...hehehe!

-Fox

Skip the clear tape, and buy several thousand label sheets. Look for "UPS Labels". These are "two-up" on a 8.5x11 sheet, and are desifgned for the Paypal USPS/UPS labels. No clear tape. Print-peel-stick.

The labels are cheap. I got 3000 sheets (6000 labels) for $10. You will use one full sheet per item shipped, so if you buy 2400 labels, it's for 1200 shipments.

Example auction here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2400-SHIPPING-LABELS-UPS-USPS-CLICK...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

quote:

Originally posted by JeffS:
Skip the clear tape, and buy several thousand label sheets. Look for "UPS Labels". These are "two-up" on a 8.5x11 sheet, and are desifgned for the Paypal USPS/UPS labels. No clear tape. Print-peel-stick.

The labels are cheap. I got 3000 sheets (6000 labels) for $10. You will use one full sheet per item shipped, so if you buy 2400 labels, it's for 1200 shipments.

Example auction here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2400-SHIPPING-LABELS-UPS-USPS-CLICK...QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Large amounts of thank yous! I do believe I shall acquire some of these!

Update: I just did! I am quite anxious to get my paws on these!!

-Fox

I should also mention, some sellers are selling "UPS Branded" labels that have a little line of text on the edge that says "For UPS Shipping Only". Don't worry about that, those are OK too, and are most likely the cheapest. They are also the ones I use. the USPS couldn't care less if you use UPS labels or if they say "UPS only"!

quote:

The labels are cheap.

The labels are free with a UPS account. They are printed with "UPS shipping only" on them. The sellers order them through UPS for free and have them sent to you. They are out nothing and are committing fraud.

quote:

Originally posted by hgmartin:

quote:

The labels are cheap.

The labels are free with a UPS account. They are printed with "UPS shipping only" on them. The sellers order them through UPS for free and have them sent to you. They are out nothing and are committing fraud.

Oh. Um...that kinda sucks. now I feel bad for buying some

-Fox

quote:

They are out nothing and are committing fraud.

Perhaps, but that's their problem. Not mine.

As far as I'm concerned, I bought them from someone else. If you're concerned, cut the line out with a scissor. I find that when I print the label, the URL of the Paypal print page prints right over the "UPS Only" part and you can't read it.

Either way, it doesn't matter.

If you're that concerned, buy the labels that don't say UPS. Both types are available.

quote:

I'm talking about people who completely cover their fees with shipping, like the memory guys who charge $10 to ship something weighing ONE ONCE.

Some are about fee avoidance.

Your point?

I bought labels, I paid for them, I don't care where the seller got them from.