Some great advice, although I'm wary of too much "coaching" buyers.

I'd never follow the advice of explaining DSRs in my listings, I firmly believe that this could be off putting to buyers - they have enough to read and the DSR coaching would be ignored and unread just as over long Ts and Cs are. The example from Jacki is over long and could be replaced by a simple one liner similar to "We aim to give a five star services, please contact us before leaving feedback if you don't think we achived this"

I highly endorse adding a similar one liner to emails and packing slips, and possibly even in the feedback you as a seller leave for buyers (assuming you leave feedback on payment or despatch).
As a buyer, I understand the importance of leaving honest, factual feedback. I also welcome the opportunity to leave DSR's since although you might be really pleased with an item, there may still be aspects of the transaction with which you were less than satisfied! And having seperate DSR ratings makes it much easier for eBay to gauge sellers' overall performance - and reward them for maintaining a good overall standard.

But I would definitely find any "coaching" by a seller on the DSR system in any way shape or form, an insult to my intelligence! This is because anyone with an ounce of intelligence can find out all about how DSR's work in eBay's help section eBay's DSR tutorial

I would also think it a downright cheek for sellers to try to influence the way a buyer rates them now - when before eBay decided to step in and stop them being able to leaving buyers negative fedback, so many of them used to leave retalliatory negative feedback (including personal slurs that were not only not factual but also totally untrue and often downright libelous!) for buyers - just because a buyer dared to leave them a negative!

I am therefore very pleased that eBay has finally decided to give buyers the opportunity to leave honest negative feedback without having to fear receiving retalliatory back, out of sheer and utter spite!
Look I am sorry but where the hell are you ?mars?
As you certainly are not on this planet!
How can you spout drivel like that why should we as the sellers who pay thiefbay have to tell our customers how to leave dsrs and why make them so constrictive?
Just admit it theifbay suck now, they are not a good company to deal with if they were a high street store people would not use them and they certainly wouldnt have any staff(ie sellers)
They suspended my account although I have 100% feedback and 4.8/9's on the dsr's, you say get sent to the back of the class. stuff that I got the hell out and am now going to a much better school that's not run by Gestapo.
Sorry your comments at best are pathetic and at worst belittling to the customer.
oh and the final comment
"Let's work together to make a great community, full of fabulous bargains & fun for all."
How can it be fun? theifbay have taken whatever fun there was and squeezed the life out of it your earlier comment
"Their jobs may be more complex now, but this is a resourceful group of people. " says that.
thiefbay are losing huge amounts of people ok its only small percentages at the moment but its going to get worse for them. I hope and prey they crash to let some new blood in because its needed.
I wonder whether you sell on ebay bradndeb as a quick visit to your site only has a link to amazon! I assume you are just in it for the money and that you dont actually give 2 hoots what thiefbay say and do as you dont sell on there anyway yet you appear to have all the "inside" knowledge.
DSR's, while I personally like them, CANNOT be used to your advantage.
DSR's when tied to searches, incentives, etc. are arbitrary, and in the manner in which ebay is implementing them, nearly impossible for people to maintain. How can a seller maintain a solid DSR when ebay allows actual s/h charges or Free shipping to be rated a 1?

The only way to make a DSR work for you, is to boycott ebay.

Btw, contrary to ebay's claims, buyers DO boycott ebay. I should know. I am mostly a buyer on ebay. Correction. Was. Now I neither sell nor buy on ebay.

Ebay has proven over and over again this year, they are nothing but liars. The stats they throw out, are lies, as far as I am concerned. Even if they weren't spinning these numbers, I wouldn't believe them, because that is all they have done all year. is just another example of how ebay is lying to the public. They say they allow sellers who sell over $500,000 a month to "negotitate" pricing AND policies. WHATS THAT?

Here, look at THESE numbers, and you see for yourself, if ebay is making good business choices, or, padding their numbers, to make it look like the boycott is working:

Seller: Buy
Dates: March 2, 2008-May 31, 2008
Total Items Listed: 2,708,987
Total sales: $3,924,907
Successful listings: 64,638
Total Items Offered: 249,431,285
Sell through rate: 2.39%
Average Sale: $44.43
MINIMUM listing fee, including dutch auctions: $24,943,128.50 (Based on the lowest fee of .10 per listing, and offering Media Mail. Does not include higher listing fees, or other promotional listing fees, or Final Value Fees, which would increase the fees dramnatically).

EBAY, we deserve to know, WHAT'S GOING ON?
EBAY, your investors deserve to know WHAT'S GOING ON?

Boycott Today and Beyond,
Here in the UK*, if you are not selling brand-new items, there is no realistic alternative to ebay.(except books: amazon uk..).
There's no way I'd make as much money on say, cqout, as ebay. I've tried.
So we have to put up with this crap. And it is crap.
Putting "DSR begging" in the listing is demeaning. I'm certainly not going to do it. It's up to eBay to explain this properly to buyers.
Not meaning to be condescending here, but I'm not making any judgements on my buyer's academic abilities. If I sell a workshop manual for a car, it's likely to be bought by someone who fixes cars, and is not likely to be interested in reading a rambling passage about DSRs. If someone doesn't post feedback, I'm certainly not going to bully them into it. That's asking for crappy ratings.

I am going to slightly modify the "dispatch notice" e-mail in selling manager to mention DSRs, and suggest that buyers go for 5 rather than 4. However I don't expect anyone will read it.

Amazon is far more laid-back about feedback, "buyers will leave feedback if they feel like it". I know who I'd rather deal with.

Oh, and I have 100% feedback on Amazon, eBay, and cqout, just for the record.

*UK = United Kingdom. United? Don't make me laugh!
UUMMM isnt Auctiva Owned by Ebay??? I admit that I dont really have another venue for what I sell right now..but I felt like the article just rubbed it in..Like saying..Yeah, you've been HAD so deal with it...AND..that Ebay KNEW it was a bad deal for sellers from the get go..but made the decision based on the fact that there really is no other venue of this calibur *YET*. Its nothing we really didnt know, but it really angers me to see it in writing!!..But it is only a matter of time before something else comes along and Ebay falls victim to its own greed. Articles like this one are an insult added to to Ebay I say..I am NOT your Family..and unlike the forgiveness or understanding I would find in my heart for my**Family**..I will not forgive or forget your Greed and the contempt you have shown to sellers. You are bleeding us dry because you think you can and sellers wont soon forget when that New Venue opens to us!!!
As far as DSR's ..its a crock..they have made it near impossible to get the so called discount associated with it and Ill be darned if I am going to hassle my customers with one more letter or complication. Its just another way to try to make you think they are actually doing something for you..when in reality there are so many who have had their 100% feedback rating go down (because nuetral are now figured as a neg,,(GO FIGURE!)and without negs to buyers..UG>> more and more sellers are complaining of Non Payment because they (**SOME Buyers) know it wont effect them..(check out the Ebay boards!)
To those who say..Hey if you dont like it..leave..I say..well there is still no where to go..but I wont pretend its all hunky dory either..Im just biding my time here..and it IS only a matter of time..
There is no calamity greater than lavish desires. There is no greater guilt than discontentment. And there is not greater disaster than greed. - Lao-Tzu

I'm not aware of ebay owning auctiva. I believe Auctiva is a third party tool.
As far as nowhere to go? Well, that is not true.
The boycott efforts are supporting four sites:
1. (OLA)
3. (craft and home made items
All four sites have had relatively good success.
OLA has done quite well with its Penny over auctions, which is very similar to buy it now. They have a toll free number, and they help promote sellers.
Ioffer is growing extremely fast. They have skyrocketted to second place as far as listings go. There are close to 5 million listings there, last I checked.
So, theer are some alternatives. And reasonably successful alternatives at that.
There are others, but, we believe that the fewer sites we support, the more chance there will be of actually hurtng ebay's bottom-line, while helping reunite sellers and buyers.
I see nothing wrong with a seller adding notes to the invoice letting their buyer know exactly how the DSR's work. Ebay even encouraged it in one of their last emails. I add a note to my invoice and I don't do it to make a buyer feel stupid. I do it because a low rating can affect my search rankings, discounts and more. When you fill out a survey card for any business they do the same thing - they tell you what type service they strive for and explain what the rating scale is. That's all I do (and the other sellers do) by adding this note.

And Auctiva is not owned by ebay - thank god. Without Auctiva and their free extras I would have much less attractive listings at a higher price.
Are you kidding. Do you hear yourself in what you have just said. It is a proven fact that no one leaves 100% with 5 ratings to finish..NO ONE. Ebay new this when they put it in to place. They want us to get bad feedback so they can make more money. They have no intention of you ever making a full 100% rating. As you remember they raised the rates and the only way to pay what we use to is to be rated by there buyers who they don't even check out to be a buyer. This is just a way for them to get more money out of us to pay for all the lawsuites coming there way. I bet now there are even more because what they have done now is change the rules in the middle of the game and cause a great deal of good people trying to earn a hard leaving to go under..guess what we won't go alone!! Ebay has gone to far!! This must be against the law and I am a Mother trying to help feed my kids...Is ebay agaisnt mothers in the work place..mmmm seams like it to me! They have put into place a flat out rip off program and I would not sell on here another day even if they paid me. But I will join in all that will bring ebay down...because for this they will go down...even if it is not in this life!! XXXX Power seller!!
If I wanted a "Pay for performance" system, then I would just work harder at my present job. I feel like I am now an "employee" of ebay and ebay is saying, "Look, you either meet our goals or you're gone". I get enough of this "corprospeak" at work. I don't need it dictated to me in my private life too.
But, they will never admit they are wrong on this one, so I guess if you want to sell, you need to suck it up.

Yah right! My solution is to not "buy in" to the BS ebay is dictating.
I don't leave feedback, period. If someone wants to leave me feedback, then so be it, but I will no longer use their BS system.
I will sell using ebays rules because I have NO CHOICE if I want the business. Let's face it, until someone else comes along that can compete, then we are all lemmings, but we can find other ways to buck the system.
I have also reduced the $ I keep in Paypal to a minimum since I don't want to have it dictated to me when I can use or have my money. These guys are crooks who are using their rules to keep you from your hard earned $$ so they can use it to make more for themselves while you wait for your 20 day penalty before you can get to your $$.
Ebay forgot who pays their bills long ago.
I figure I owe eBay. Like everyone else, I was not happy about the changes. In a fit of pique, I posted on a local buy/sell site and on Craigslist of all things. I accidentally discovered that the collectible baskets I was selling were more popular locally and I didn't have as much competition so my price per basket could be a bit higher. Since the changes went into effect, I think I've listed one thing to be sold and purchased two out of print books. I now use eBay more for research on what to charge than as a buy/sell site.
I could not disagree with this article more. The voices of those who have been hurt by this new system have not calmed down or gone quiet and it is not working well for anyone and buyers are feeling the effects as well. If we want to post ebay support messages in the news letter that is fine but at least say your all for Ebay in it. I am a gold level powerseller on the verge of platinum or was until ebay started this disaster, and yes I mean disaster. This system has caused tremendous problems and placed listings all over the place. It has severly damaged my buisness and that of thousands of others and it is not getting better.

One of ebays recent posts suggested that powersellers were improving their DSR'S and now 67% qualified for discounts. What they didnt tell you is that they are all bronze sellers. Over 70% of the Gold level sellers and above have not recovered from this and it is getting worse. It was designed to get worse. Ebay knew that this would happen to increase revenue and improve stock value. Oh boy has it, but it has also raised prices across the board on Ebay. What was 99 cents is now $1.25 and shipping charges are rising as people switch to flat rate or even free shipping and bury it in the price. By the way Free shipping preference another money scam by Ebay. Cant put a fee on the postal price so encourage buyers by giving preference to listings with free shipping so the shipping is in the item price therefore it can have a fee put on it, brilliant. Now we get the new search board that has no store name and no locations on it. Another underhanded ebay move. Buyers had a preference for local buyers but now they removed that and unless you search it by adjusting the window your screwed. They did this for the big boys like buy,com and the chinese so people dont avoid them and will not know its them until they are in the listing page. Simple marketing says that once they are on the item page the likelyhood of them going to another is small. So Ebay does this to slant the field toward certain players. While the stores that have been here for a long time and helped ebay grow are taking it in the shorts.

A recent customer of mine told me that because of ebay and the rising costs that she is no longer going to shop on ebay and asked me to forward her comments on to ebay, that ebay was losing a 2,000 dollar per month buyer. She stated she liked my service and my prices but the rest of ebay was out of whack and it is. Long time buyers cant find your listings because they move all the time. The DSR Rating system is designed to lower you in search status so the big boy dealers that have special deals with ebay get little to no competition and ebay rakes in fees from people losing there shorts.

In your article you write the family will hold together. NO IT WILL NOT, The family is fighting and getting worse, it has become the Hatfields and McCoys and there is no end in sight.

I as well as several other sellers in my categories are talking daily and we control several distinct categories on ebay in total volume sales, and we are activly taking customers off of ebay to personal sites and others. Ebay has become simply a means to generate customers and do marketing. If the sales help it break even thats great but other than that I do not have a positive opinion of Ebay. Isend email to the CSME@EBAY Daily and will not stop. I will remain a voice for a long time to come. Ebay screwed up this time badly and just because some people want to act like the great flea market still exists, think again. It does not, It is now a corporate mess designed to make the average seller lose. You either go in all the way or drown thats it.

From now on Auctiva put up some articles that are honest. Yes you need Ebay to survive but try and show a little bit of backbone.

In fact here I will leave you one of my recent Ebay posts for thought, It seems to be very popular on the boards and is currently being published in 2 newspapers.

So you want to know why EBay has and still is making changes that are changing the very basics of EBay for the worse. There is no doubt that most if not all of you out there have formulated some type of opinion of the changes that have been made to date and also as to why these changes have been made. While this is great and I totally encourage you all to get to the bottom of the EBay changes, it is my hope that this posting will help shed more light on the true reasons behind all of these changes that have been made by EBay.

While this posting will be considerably long I do believe that it is needed and will ultimately be worth it to you to read this post in is full length. Unfortunately it is my belief that EBay will quickly remove this post as it shows a more complete version of what is really happening on EBay when you filter out all of the deception and misguided attempts to place the reasons for these changes on the sellers. It is also hoped that all of you will send or direct all of your fellow sellers or buyers or friends to this post so that they might begin to understand the truth and the complexity of what EBay has done and is still continuing to do.

So without further delay let’s get to the truth!!!!!!

1. EBay is the biggest business in online sales; it has the largest base of sellers and buyers and generates the most revenues around for this type of selling and buying.

2. Over the last few years competition for EBay has been growing at a very fast pace. Today EBay faces greater competition from more sources on the web and this has impacted EBay’s profits significantly and is growing.

3. Simple Math: More Competition + Less Profits = Lower stock prices

It is these 3 single reasons that EBay needed to make changes, aside from anything else the bottom line is simple EBay was losing money and when you’re losing money your investors are pits and the value of your company goes down. When that happens people start investing in your competitors who are offering a better online experience with buying and selling and thus giving you more competition. So EBay had to adapt to the changes and it needed to do something drastic, but there are several problems with the approach that eBay has taken so far to date and I will go in to detail in the rest of this posting.

Now please understand I am not against EBay making changes and I really do not believe most sellers and buyers on EBay are against changes either. Changes are and always will be part of life and while nothing is easy changes are essential from time to time it just that changes are either right or terribly wrong and while it is still early in the changes on EBay it is very clear to most if not all on eBay that the changes to date are leaning to the terribly wrong category and EBay does see this and this was not unexpected.

EBay is a very smart company with some very smart people, you don’t make billions without the brains but somewhere on the path to riches EBay lost its common sense about the buyers and sellers on eBay and now eBay has turned that loss of common sense into a strategy that has single handedly done more to hurt EBay in the long run than it has to increase profits in the short term. So let’s discuss what EBay has done.

1. EBay changes in total the feedback system of old and gave us this new feedback system.

2. EBay changed the basic fee structure for buyers and sellers.

3. EBay created a new system for listing priority and search status for seller’s listings.

4. EBay created a fee discount system based on total seller performance.

5. EBay changed the basics of the search listing board today (July 13, 2008).

6. EBay has made many other changes as well but for most these 5 are at the very core of the new problems and uproar on EBay and they will also be sufficient to explain why and how and what EBay is really trying to do here with all of these changes that we all dislike so much. So let’s start with the first one and work our way through all 5 and by the time we are done you will understand the changes and begin to be able to filter out EBay’s propaganda deception and see all of this for what it really is.

1. The feedback change:

1. The Propaganda Deception: EBay has stated and continues to maintain that the feedback changes were needed to allow buyers to leave a more accurate assessment of an EBay seller and to do this without fear of retaliation. This is a flat out Lie by EBay. This was the best reason aside from the truth to make these feedback changes. It is a reason that people both buyer and seller would give some credibility too and at least try to see if it would work prior to screaming foul. This reason was also chosen because it places the changes that empower the buyer against the misery of the seller and keeps the eyes off of EBay for the real reason for the change in the feedback system. It creates a division between the buyers and the sellers and says this is your fault sellers for retaliating against buyers by leaving feedback that is either unfair or in return for a bad rating left against you. The feedback change makes the sellers angry and in search of a way to know which buyers is safe to sell to while not wanting to make any buyers mad at the risk of getting any bad feedback. All of these reasons and problems distract us from the truth about eBay’s feedback changes and after we get through the other 4 reasons I will bring them all together to paint a total and complete picture of all the changes and how this all works to EBay’s benefit and why we are all getting screwed here.

2. The Fee Structure Change:

1. The Deception: EBay changed the fee structure under the excuse that there were too many fees being charged by sellers on items and that a simpler fee structure was needed that buyers could understand better and thus know what the fees were on an item and thus know when they were being overcharged. This was a nether good excuse by EBay that again was placed on the backs of the sellers as the reason for being needed. This change was not argued as much by the sellers as the other changes but nonetheless has been a significant source of anger for sellers against EBay.

3. The Listing and Search Status Change:

1. The Deception: Sellers will be ranked according to their 30 day eBay feedback in an effort to benefit better sellers who are focused on customer service and satisfaction. Buyers will be able to reward good sellers with good ratings and let other sellers know where they need to improve. This will create a system where the more customer friendly sellers will get a higher placement in the search status and have their listings shown above others. Those that have a lower rating from buyers will be placed at the lower end of the search pages and tell the seller that they need to improve. This has been the single biggest deception eBay has pulled over everyone’s eyes. EBay placed the buyer as the villain against the seller. EBay gave the buyer the power to really hurt the seller in a powerful way through feedback. EBay made the buyer feel powerful and knew that the buyer would use this power without fear of retaliation. EBay knew the seller would suffer tremendously because of this and this was very planned and wanted and needed. EBay deceived the buyer into believing this change was made for them. That the better and more honest the seller the better there placement would be in the search page. But this change wasn’t made for the buyer; this change in search status from feedback was designed for EBay and was for EBay’s benefit, not the buyers. EBay made the buyer feel powerful and has used this to rake in countless millions in new fees from EBay sellers because of the need to adapt to the lower search status countless thousands of sellers have now experienced. This change that was made in search status in combination with feedback has been and will continue to be the cornerstone of EBay’s new financial gains and it was done by using the buyer against the seller. What is the old saying “Divide and conquer”?

4. The Fee Discount Deception:

1. The Deception: A new fee discount system will be created to reward good sellers with better DSR Ratings with a way to offset the new increased fees of EBay. Those sellers that maintain higher DSRS will be given a discount on their final value fees in accordance with their DSR scores. Discounts will be 5% or 15% and now the new 20% discount. This deception has probably been the worst of EBay’s attempts to deceive sellers and buyers. It just hasn’t worked. Sellers were smart enough to see through this deception and have cried foul from day 1 but I do not believe that the sellers as a whole have truly figured out how big a deception this really was and is. This deception didn’t just try to convince you that you were getting a discount for good ratings. This deception wasn’t totally aimed at the sellers; it was also aimed at the buyers. Yes, the buyers. As most of us have and EBay’s hopes will continue, it is that we buy as well as sell on EBay. EBay knows that countless buyers have watched and thought that maybe they might want to sell on EBay as well. The lure of a financial windfall has brought most if not all to EBay and EBay’s continued success is based on this fact. Bring in new sellers, bring in new buyers. Give incentives to the new seller that make him or her want to try their hand at EBay. Make them believe that it is based on quality of service and that for great service you will get a discount on fees. New buyers sign up, open a store, start there listings in a hope to get rich quick and then realize just how hard EBay is to succeed at. The buyers think EBay is simple, back 5 years ago maybe but today no way. Today EBay is difficult at best, large sellers can offer better prices, more diversity, and have become experts at EBay. For a new seller the lure of a discount and rewards for being a good seller have created and influx of new sellers and this has created millions in profits for EBay. But this has had both a negative effect on both the buyers and the sellers that most if not all have not seen and this deception that started as a discount on fees that most if not all sellers knew was a sham has still created millions. The fallout of this deception though is now starting to surface. The new sellers are selling, the older sellers are selling less and the prices on EBay are rising. What was once .99 cents from a larger seller has now become $1.25 and the increase in price has gained EBay more fees. The sellers lost business, the buyers lost good prices and EBay gained more profits in the form of higher fees. Deception at its best.

5. The new listing Board:

1. In the line of changes the new listing board rolled out today and is working in conjunction with the rest of the changes eBay has made to date but with some new significant twists. Did you notice them? You better look hard the changes are very settle. The first change and maybe the most significant is that the EBay store no longer has its name on the search page. Yes you heard right, you no longer have your name on the page and this is huge if you are a seller with a large store that generates a lot of store sales. For years eBay preached generating store sales as a means to get a final value fee reduction. If you can generate a sale from another source you can get a reduction in final value fees for the sale that was generated on one of your other listings with certain rules. Many large sellers have worked hard to set up this strategy to get full benefit of it and keep fees down, well today EBay essentially wiped that away without even a word to the sellers. Along with that buyers no longer know who the seller is unless they open the listing. This change now eliminates all of the hard work so many sellers have gone through to create a good name for themselves. EBay once preached generating a good business name. But because so many can use the name to go off of eBay to the web this name area was removed. Research shows that if a buyer opens a listing that they are less likely to go buy somewhere else. You get them in the door and essentially the sale is over, fees are generated and eBay makes money. It is a dirty tactic and trick by EBay but it will probably work for them. Along with this change in the listing board the location column disappeared. Many a buyer buys in relation to distance from home. Closer sellers get business, but also foreign sellers are seen and can be avoided if you don’t want to risk the international purchase. This is no longer the case. As is in the categories I sell, there are countless foreign countries and many a buyer will stay away from them because of the risks involved. But now with the locations removed the buyer must be more aware of where sellers really are. This opens the door to foreign sellers offering knock off sales and slave labor and sweat shops to cut the throat of honest American businesses. Essentially EBay has gone WALMART on us. If you can’t keep up with the Chinese labor price you will not be growing your EBay business unless the buyers catch on to this trick by EBay. As for the rest of the changes on the board only time will tell how much damage this is going to do to EBay and the buyers and sellers.

The Total Picture:

Now that you have read the deceptions lets tie all of this together to show the effects all of this has had on the buyers and sellers of EBay and how EBay used all of us in a pursuit for more profits and a better stock rating and happy investors. Hold on to your hats, you’ll be pist to see how bad you have been screwed by EBay.

As we all know the vast majority of changes on EBay have affected the sellers, while this is very true it has also hurts the buyers but the hardest hit in all of the changes has been the larger Gold Level Power seller and above sellers. Over the years large sellers have spent countless hours and dollars learning the EBay system, rules, strategies and how to turn this into profits through volume sales and good prices and all while keeping their EBay fees to a minimum. In every category on EBay large sellers have dominated and controlled the markets and listings and any new sellers were quickly pushed out. This market control not unlike EBay web dominance but in specific categories has built some good companies with employs and created jobs in many a place. But as with all things a market cap is reached and revenues max out, no new sellers join and eBay’s profits stay consistent. But all businesses must grow to survive and EBay knows this. EBay’s stock were staying and starting to slide back and it looked as if the top had been reached. But EBay could not handle this, new competition was taking customers and EBay needed to take action. The best way to take action was to create more competition in an effort to bring eBay back to a more competitive market situation. In other words the larger sellers had to be taken down much the same as Microsoft was split. EBay had to open the markets up to new buyers. New buyers that didn’t know how to maximize profits and sales and avoid fees. So eBay developed all of the changes we see today and more that are still to come. For over 18 months EBay researched what is taking place today. EBay tweaked and changed all it could in a study to figure all of this out prior to actually doing it. While some changes are made on the fly most have been considerably thought out for EBay by EBay. So step one open the market to smaller sellers.

To open the market EBay had to systematically find a way to lower larger sellers without just lowering them and getting 5000 lawsuits so EBay invented the DSR system. The DSR system would rate the sellers on feedback but in a very specific way that was not going to allow almost any large seller to be able to maintain market control for long. You see DSR’S are made from 5 stars and ratings in full stars 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 stars but the twist on this is that the sellers will be rated in tenths of a star. 4.6, 4.7, 4.8, 4.8. 5.0. You as a buyer can leave a full star and only full stars but sellers would be rated in tenths of a star. This rating method was decided on because it is so blatantly slighted towards EBay’s goals of lowering the large sellers. As we all know large sellers get more feedback but what we don’t realize is that a significant portion of buyers will not give 5 stars in any case. It is simply they don’t believe in rating anyone as perfect. With this in mind EBay created the DSR rating system to work in tenths of a point for sellers because the shear 4 star numbers would lower the sellers DSR over time and not all at once. While it is not know yet it is figured that most large sellers with end up around a 4.6 rating because of this system possibly less. What is also not to widely recognized is that on a buyers feedback page is that 4 stars is given a title as a good rating so those who are new to eBay or a part time buyer will think that that is a proper rating to give. It is only the more knowledgeable that will give the full 5 star or those that are so happy they give a perfect rating. But the odds clearly favor some variation of 5 and 4 stars. If you do the math on this which is difficult for even some pretty smart people it basically comes down to this. If you get one 5 star and then a 4 star your average is a 4.5 and thus does not qualify for any discounts and also places you in lower search status. As a larger seller this is very bad if not deadly. For every 4 star you receive you need 2 consecutive 5 stars to keep a rating above 4.6. If you get a 3 star you need 5 consecutive 5 stars to maintain above a 4.6 DSR Rating now adds a 4 star to the mix and it just grows. When your daily feedback is in the area of 40 ratings a day and above your DSR scores are in serious trouble and thus your discounts, your search status and you sales.

So how do you combat this DSR nightmare? Simple, you need more 5 star ratings. How do you get more 5 star ratings by offering better service is eBay’s answers, that is a bunch of junk. You still need sales to generate feedback and remember you need many more 5 stars to increase a lower rating so therefore you need many more sales. But you are faced with the ultimate paradox in how to generate more sales when your search status is lowered and your listings have less visibility. So how do you do it? How do you improve your DSR’S.? The only way you can if you want to survive, you flood the market with listings to generate sales by sheer volume. You generate quick easy sales that boost feedback. While this works it also does something else. It generates EBay and incredible amount of Fees. As a larger seller you original system and business model is shot and you have to change. Your EBay fees are skyrocketing in order to stay afloat, after all you have employees. EBay is raking in the dough your listings success rate is plummeting, your fees are increasing, your feedback is slowly rising and then you figure out the reason for the new discounts and incentives on EBay. Your once solid hold on a category, your once great prices are now trumped by the new seller with 5 items sold per week that has a 4.8 rating that is sitting atop the search page. His listing price is higher because he doesn’t have your buying power. His prices are crazy because he is new to EBay sales, and he doesn’t know how to make the most of things to avoid EBay’s wild fees. So through a simple feedback switch EBay made huge benefits for itself. EBay has brought in new blood that is paying full fees and maybe getting a 5% discount on 50% in final value fees, while you the large seller are getting no discount and paying twice what you were in fees. What is worse is that the buyer who is rating you in this system they believe is for them to leave honest feedback about is really designed to hurt you and them as well. The buyer was told it will help you, WRONG. It didn’t help you to a better EBay; you the buyer helped yourself to higher prices, and higher fees. Tell me this isn’t intense.

EBay has created one of the biggest profit driven systems that screw not only you the seller but the effects are starting now for the buyer and the new sellers that are listing are getting a chance to try their hand at EBay and thinking this is so cool while they are small sellers. It is a fact that 90% of EBay businesses fail but they will spend 5,000 dollars getting there and EBay loves every penny of it.

I will be honest I could go into this even further. I could show you individual circumstances and examples but like I said at the beginning EBay will wipe this out quick. The best thing you can do as a buyer or seller is inform your customers and friends about all that is going on with EBay. Point out the deceptions, point out the truths and observe. See the changes being made and check into them. EBay thinks buyers are stupid and that sellers will cut each other’s throat for a buck. If EBay is right then this will never change, but if they see this backfire changes will be made. EBay must have money to survive and if the prices rise to high as many a buyer has told me in general about eBay them people will leave for other places on the internet. In the end I do believe EBay will make more changes that will return some things to normal but it will never return to the best way it was. It is clear that if you are a large seller you better diversify to other media quick. You better have other sources of income and use EBay as a source for new customers only because until EBay changes this is going to be a long and rough ride and I would be surprised if half of the top 5,000 survive this without significant loses.

So far in the first 45 days of this my current loses are at or over $3,000 dollars and climbing plus one employee lost job and I run a very honest and fair business. I am not getting rich on EBay by any means but in the last 45 days I feel like I am rocketing to the poor house.

This is all your fault EBay and I can promise you that I will continue to preach the truth to all who listen. I am working on a book about this and I will continue to send flyers in my packages educating my buyers about this and the results to date are positive for me. People are glad to see the truth. You may not like it EBay but the buyers and sellers both control your future and if you continue to snub them, not take phone calls and continue to try to offer deception and propaganda as a means to conduct business to charge more fees and increase profits then you are no better than the worst offensive sellers on EBay.

Do the right things EBay, encourage fairness, create fairness and a system that works for all, you are becoming larger than a private company and at some point the government will step in to bust up this monopoly like they did with Microsoft if you don’t keep your eye on keeping everyone happy.

John Donahoe or any other EBay Executive can contact me any time, I am glad to debate any in EBay and help them improve what they have so terribly screwed up.

Copyright Joe Johnson 7/13/2008
I am in complete agreement with "ebaysucks" comments.

The Power Seller status and associated "discounts" from final fees connection is too much stick for very little carrot.

I offer free shipping with no handling charges on my listings with orders being consistently shipped within one business day of the receipt of cleared funds and my DSR on shipping costs is 4.7 and 4.8 on shipping time.

Some rug jockey living in Canada told me that he gave me a 3 on shipping time because his order spent two days in Canadian customs.

I really do not know how more reasonable shipping costs to the purchaser can be than free or how much faster an item can be shipped than one business day unless the purchaser elects to pay the "Get It Fast" alternative that we offer from UPS & Fed Ex.

Fast service does not mean instant service.

When the Star Trek transporter beam is made a reality then delivery might be instantaneous but shipping, ie. careful wrapping & packing will still take time and unless you are are a seller with little business.

And the number of patrons who have received their purchases, intact and on time, who leave these glowing positive narrative feedbacks and then vent their frustrations over $4 gasoline, marital disharmony, the neighbor's dog barking all night or, I suspect, pure vindictiveness,
is on the rise.

Let them even up their scores, sans the wall of confidentiality that eBay has thoughtfully provided them, on sellers who overcharge for s &h, take their monies and ship them faulty or no merchandise, take their monies and never receive an acknowledgement of their existence, much less a word of thanks.

A friend of mine and an Ebay PS took his first negative feedback hit in over 2200 unique transactions and a 1 on shipping because the purchaser thought that he had used "too many Styrofoam peanuts..."

How do you deal with mentalities like that.

The author of this "Can't we all just get along" pap in hopes of receiving the feedback of the type and quality they require have lost contact with reality and should be a candidate for a long stay in a mental institution.

If the source of the "Let's all work together to make the eBay dystopia heaven on earth" theory is not a switch hitter for the house I will eat my hat.

It is bad enough that eBay is urinating on your leg without some Ms. Know-It-All telling you that "Why, its really only raining!" Smile Smile
Amen my friend, AMEN!!!

To add to that I also until this new feedback had one negative on Ebay. I run a minimum of 1500 listings per day repeating. In one week of the new system I had 5 more negatives. 1 for the buyer saying I should have packed their boxes with a plastic liner to protect from the rain when UPS left it under her porch because she wasnt home. I mean now I am supposed to know the weather to each package destination and where UPS Puts it. I have incured at a minimum 5 other negatives over the duration of this mess for people wanting free items and i refuse to give them and all were reported to Ebay. Ebay said when they get more we will do something. Uh what suspend them and let them get a new account? I recently just 2 days ago had a loady buy over $120 worth of items and asked for combined shipping, as a good seller I did. She sent an email back saying it was to high and I either needed to adjust it down with no mark up to cover ebays and paypal fees or I could wait and file and unpaid item dispute and pound sand, that she wouldnt pay. Now today somehow Ebay let her uncombine the items and only pay for one. What about the other 6 items. It is amazing and the stuff keeps getting worse by the day. Oh by the way, Unpaid items went from 4% of my sales to 19% waiting 10 days or more to pay. If its the end of the month forget it, 14 days.
Insight and Analysis on SellerDome’s Top eBay Seller Rankings HomeAbout Admin Rss Statistics Show NARU And Inactive eBay Sellers On The Rise
July 16th, 2008
From 5/25/2008 to 7/16/2008 (52 days), the number of NARU and Inactive eBay Sellers (sellers with no feedback for the past month, past 6 months or past 12 months) ranked in the top 100,000 by feedback on has increased nearly 15.1%. On 5/25/2008, 18.5% (18,514) of the Top 100,000 eBay Sellers were NARU or Inactive. Today, 21.3% (21,308) of the same group are NARU or Inactive.
I am a Silver Level Powerseller, just short of gold for a few years now. Every month I pay approximately $400-600 in eBay and Paypal fees combined. The higher discounts could really come in handy. The only problem is that my shipping DSR is always 4.7. Sometimes it rises to 4.8 only to mysteriously drop just when it's time for eBay to apply those discounts.

In my experience, buyers think that they should pay for what shipping costs actually are or less, period. They do not take into account time, money, gasoline or the fact that eBay and especially Paypal take a percentage of what they've paid us (an increasing percentage, which is 1% higher for international transactions).

Although I would love to create a lovely message such as the one in this article, I think my message would be more about shipping and less about overall scores. The funniest thing is my Communication DSR is the lowest number (not out of 5, but just compared to the others) and I don't really know what else I can do about it. I answer questions within minutes (or hours if I'm not around) and send at least one message to let a buyer know that their item is on its way to them. Really, I hate it when I buy an item and am bombarded by email after email about my purchase because they use an automated internet program.
A comment on the last post.

I am glad to see you noticed the adjustments Ebay makes before calculating your discount I have actually sat on the phone with Ebay as the score was calculated and watched it with a senior supervisor. He was in amazement. I have also had the privledge to actually have friends send in 5 star dsrs while on the phone with Ebay and watch my dsrs go down, to the horro of the ebay supervisor. It is quite a system they have.

I will explain it a bit for you. Oh if the Ebay loving Ms. Big happy family wants to learn something real about Ebay read this.

Ebay does a DAILY Snapshot of your DSR Ratings, It is automated and occurs at around 3 am to 5 am depending on the amount of servers used. This is the ratings that go onto your DSR Board and is represenative of the 30 day old feedback falling off and whatever is left. During the day the new feedback is added and theoretically if all is well it should rise through the day. Should !!!!!!

Starting on the 22nd, and going through the 23rd, 24th, 25th and sometimes 26th, Ebay does your invoice snapshot everyday. This occurs at around 3 to 5pm.

A little about this before I go further. The 22nd through the 27th or so of each month is the lowest cycle of the month for sales. Everyone is worried about coming bills and sales slow as does feedback, usually more is falling off then being added. Also buyers are more tempermental at the end of the month and feedback ratings lower on these days. Thiefbay knew this.

With this in mind ebay takes the DSR RATINGS OFF ALL THESE DAYS AND PICKS THE LOWEST FOR YOUR INVOICE BILL AND THAT # STARTS FROM THEN AND IS YOUR STARTING POINT IN DSRS FOR THAT NEXT MONTH. Yes you heard me right. So if on the 23rd your rating was lower than it was on the 25th your rating will fall back to the 23rd rating for your invoice and then become the starting point of next months dsr average. How is that for absolute evil.

It is wild to watch it do this every month but thats what it was programed to do and ebay makes alot of money off of it. Also if your dsrs are say 4.59,4.59,4.59,4.59, ebay tells you they round up, UUUUMMMMMM Wrong again, Ebay rounds down the 4.59 becomes 4.5 for the invoice.

Enough of this for tonight it really pisses me off all that ebay is doing. Oh and for my ebay faithful follower i hope this shed some light on your opinion of decietbay.
Thank you for your excellent newsletter and useful topics.

In re DSRs, it is unlikely that most, many and even some will leave a 5.
5 = Perfection.
Even GOD is not Perfect.
It is highly unlikely, especially as a bookseller using Media Mail, we are going to receive a 5-star although we package beautifully, ship immediately, leave clear listings and pictures, and the penultimate in Customer Service, plus the aforementioned Feedback information described discretely.

5 is an almost unattainable DSR, no matter what a Seller may do, most humans are not going to grade 5-star perfection.

It's a system designed to fail. Just check out eBay's Stock presently trading down 16% in one day... A very bad DSR.

We do our very best. I come from 27 years in Finance first as a Foreign Currency Trader selling to NY and Intenrational money=center banks and then NYSE firms as a Stockbroker. Some people will always find something to complain about... it's human nature.

This cannot work long for the Sellers and eBay.

It is sad that eBay, a huge company with lots of resources, has to experiment with these ideas on us. The only reason we should have to educate our buyers, is because the system is not clear in the first place .
So I should have to explain, even when it doesn't make sense, that eBay will punish me if you leave 4 stars for shipping, even when it really did cost me $25 to ship that package to California.
I think stubborn eBay will eventually have to give a little on this one. Maybe they need to explain to all the buyers when to leave 5 stars or when to leave less.
Lower the DSR requirements, especially on shipping because shipping is expensive, and not everyone (especially new buyers) understands.
Alas, I think it will only be disappearing sellers and profits that will eventually convince eBay to change, not logic.
I am getting killed by the new DSR system. I deal in a lot of used books and ship via media mail. I charge the flat rate according to the USPS Chart and add $.99 to cover the cost of the box, labels, tape, and handling. Not exactly a profit item.

I often ship the same day as the order is paid, and never more than one business day after payment.

I send people emails at every stage of the game, sometimes 4-5 total. Nobody can say my customers don't know what I am doing.

I box very securely and also wrap each book in sealed plastic. I have had customers email me with complements on my packaging.

So why can't I get a decent DSR on shipping and handling? Every time I get it up a bit, somebody is angry at their postman and I get whacked and down in the listings again.

It's all part of an insidious plot..............

Pete b
joendjj - For the first my search status dropped to standard due to a further decline in my shipping time and shipping charges DSRs.

Free shipping - No handling charges - Orders out the door within one business day and these two numbers are sinking like the Titanic.

4.9 and 5.0 on description and communication respectively and the other two are killing me.
Of course final fee discount computation day is on the horizon.

I hold, among other things, a Ph.D in finance from Wharton and statistical analysis and gaming are second nature to me...but these DSRs are a statistical set that that have no apparent positive correlation to performance.

The whole thing beats the hell out of me.

Maybe I should add that Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?" plea to my listings...Not!
My biggest complaint / pet peeve with this rating system is the four item, the shipping. I am sick and tired of getting a four star rating for something I can not control. Buyers are too cheap to pay for priority mail but except to have a book arrive across the country in 3 days. Media mail can be anywhere from 3 days to 3 weeks. Once a book leaves my hands I can not control the post office.
My ratings ar 4.8 4.8 4.5 4.4. So like you said if they don't give you 5 stars all the way along your average goes down. Any advice from the power sellers out there. I use encidia online postage so I can track my books, the label also has when I shipped it. I clearly indicate any instore handling times. Other than forcing them to pay for priority mail and not offer media mail what can I do to educate these people. I really like these auctiva newsletters they are full of helpful ideas. I agree with all these other sellers out there with the recent changes from ebay. It seems the other rights a seller has is to pay the high fees.

Please Help.

Signed frustrated small bookseller who is trying to become a power seller.
Originally posted by heardmuseum:
Thank you for your excellent newsletter and useful topics.

In re DSRs, it is unlikely that most, many and even some will leave a 5.
5 = Perfection.
Even GOD is not Perfect.
It is highly unlikely, especially as a bookseller using Media Mail, we are going to receive a 5-star although we package beautifully, ship immediately, leave clear listings and pictures, and the penultimate in Customer Service, plus the aforementioned Feedback information described discretely.

5 is an almost unattainable DSR, no matter what a Seller may do, most humans are not going to grade 5-star perfection.

It's a system designed to fail. Just check out eBay's Stock presently trading down 16% in one day... A very bad DSR.

We do our very best. I come from 27 years in Finance first as a Foreign Currency Trader selling to NY and Intenrational money=center banks and then NYSE firms as a Stockbroker. Some people will always find something to complain about... it's human nature.

This cannot work long for the Sellers and eBay.

Hi Chris I really like what you said. I am also a bookseller and I completely agree with you. My email address is If you have any suggestions that might help me. I left a post / comment today. Thanks Patricia
Originally posted by PeteB:
I am getting killed by the new DSR system. I deal in a lot of used books and ship via media mail. I charge the flat rate according to the USPS Chart and add $.99 to cover the cost of the box, labels, tape, and handling. Not exactly a profit item.

I often ship the same day as the order is paid, and never more than one business day after payment.

I send people emails at every stage of the game, sometimes 4-5 total. Nobody can say my customers don't know what I am doing.

I box very securely and also wrap each book in sealed plastic. I have had customers email me with complements on my packaging.

So why can't I get a decent DSR on shipping and handling? Every time I get it up a bit, somebody is angry at their postman and I get whacked and down in the listings again.

It's all part of an insidious plot..............

Pete b
Hi Pete
I totally agree with you. I am in the same boat. I am having the same problem that is why I signed up today to find some advice. I feel a little better knowing others are having the same problem. People expect the book to be cheap and the postage cheaper. Like you said by the time we pay the postage / padded waterproof envelope / del conf. you are at $4 where is the profit for us? piratepatricia

The best advice I have is RUN!

In the past we have all boycotted ebay a week, they'd dangle a small carrot, and we'd all come running back.
Today, however, we are assembling together, uniting. Some, myself included, have been boycotting since Feb. 18th. (Ive actually been boycotting since around Feb. 11th).

That was a week long boycott. It then allowed us to launch the largest boycott in ebay history. The first ever "open-ended" boycott; which started May 1st, and will continue until either everyone decides to completely leave ebay, or, ebay changes their policies; or, everyone decides it is time to return.

At the present time, it seems most sellers are happy at (OLA) The fees are minimal, $8 per month, no additional fees, unless the seller chooses additional options. Others are made their home at ecrater. The boycotters are also supporting (Craft items only) and

I am throwing most all my support over to because they offer phone and email support. They have actually listened to the members, and have worked alongside sellers to help keep them happy. As a buyer, this has made my experiences great. Ive actually had fun buying online again.

As far as selling on ebay? Well, there's no way I can afford to sell on ebay, ever; even if the fees were free. It's too large a risk to have buyers blackmail and extort me. It would need happen only once, before I get screwed. And, the system is made to make sellers fail. WHY would I or anyone else want to be part of a system made on a premise to create failure?
I think the thing that pisses me off the absolute most is that Ebay is pitting the sellers against the buyers. I'm the type of person who wants to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I used to assume someone was telling the truth or had a legitimate reason for whatever problem we were dealing with... now (and I hate this but can't seem to stop) my first thought when a problem arises is "Great, another scammer (or non-payer, loser, etc...)".

Ebay has set us up to have to jump to the worst conclusions first just to protect ourselves. I used to immediately refund or cancel transactions when a customer told me there was a problem. Now I ask for proof, or use the "seller has not paid" UPI instead of the mutual disagreement.

Before I left Ebay I had 3 buyers in 1 month back out, then say no to the mutual agreement even after I explained exactly what it was and why I needed to do so. I hate having to give out strikes when someone needs/wants to back out of a sale, I don't believe is forcing buyers to complete the transaction if they run into a problem financially or figure out they just didn't want the set but, especially with the much higher fees, I can't afford to lose my FVFs on that many items simply because the buyers are being jerks.

It used to be a very small minimum of buyers who scammed or were jerks because it would show, as a negative, on their account. Now I've had people who decided to come screw with someone (and I happened to be the unlucky someone) because they had a crappy day.

Ebay has become a dumping ground for other people's frustrations and a scammer or thief's paradise and like others have said... the risk has simply become too great, especially for the small to mid sized seller.

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